Dmitri Trenin

You know, she's spoken to all sorts of interesting people, done all sorts of interesting things.

Interestingly, almost, I would say, sympathetic portrayal of how people like Dmitri Trenin work.

who have very much turned from once being bridges between Russian and Western academe and think tank worlds, very much turned towards being a bit of a hurrah patriot, but why that happened.

But for me, very much what came out of this was that sense of something else being born, which again, as I say, doesn't have to be something good, but...