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Devon Hase

Buddhist meditation teacher and author who teaches at Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock, co-guiding teacher of Refuge of Belonging; co-author of This Messy, Gorgeous Love.

Sep 13, 2026

11:19
Wonderful.
11:21
And we joke in the introduction, we say, like, "Feel free to skip ahead to chapter seven," right? If that's all you wanna read, that's okay.
11:28
Um, and it definitely was the hardest chapter for me to write.
11:32
Um, but I will say, having been in retreat with those Yab Yum visualizations, with some of those deeper tantras, for me, it was very healing in terms of gender identity even, and the way that Nico and I sort of experience those polar opposites.
11:49
I mean, first of all, I think it's very smart psychologically to get to envision your own body as the fruition and the kind of wholesome, the, the togetherness of both energies.
11:59
Like, we have that in ourselves already.
12:04
And I think that it's even from Western psychology, like Jung talked about, you know, the anima and the animus and, like, em- embodying both of those was really healing for me.

13 MINS LATER

25:11
Did you- have you done much exploration into that sort of approach? And, and do you see similarities with, with the way that you're, the way that you're exploring these different energies, these different, um, qualities or personalities?
speaker_1UNKNOWN
4:46
[laughs]
4:47
So that's tonight.
4:49
That's what we're doing tonight.
4:50
But I wanted to offer this little poem or story.
4:53
It's like, um, it's a beautiful kind of [smacks lips] putting together of all four and how they, they work with each other 'cause they keep each other in balance.
5:03
They inform each other.
5:05
And this is, um, The Four Sublime Abidings.

23 MINS LATER

speaker_4UNKNOWN
28:20
[laughs]
0:00
[inhales] So good afternoon, everyone.
0:06
Um, this afternoon I wanna share some reflections on practicing loving kindness for ourselves.
0:14
And you might have read on your handout here, there's some very beautiful quotes, um, the Buddha says on the first page for metta, "I visited all quarters with my mind, nor found I any dearer than myself.
0:32
Self is likewise to every other dear.
0:35
Who loves oneself will never harm another." And then this modern rendering from Sharon Salzberg, "You can search throughout the entire universe for someone who is more deserving of your love and affection than you are yourself, and that person is not to be found anywhere.
0:56
You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." So that seems convincing, but often we really are our own most difficult person.

36 MINS LATER

TracyUNKNOWN
37:08
... 'cause it's too much.
37:09
Right, and it can be.
0:02
Good morning, everyone.
0:06
I hope that you rested well and maybe, uh, got to see the sky this morning some and that you're, uh, just feeling the beauty of this place as we arrive.
0:22
There's a lot of nurturing, uh, here and recognizing, you know, we share this land with all the creatures.
0:30
As we were walking up, we all-- we saw this, um, group of quail.
0:35
I'm sure there's, like, a technical term for a group of quail.
0:40
Um, I'll have to look that up later.
15:41
And this, in
15:42
its very simple form, is the game changer.
15:47
It's like, this is the biohack for relationships.
15:50
This is what I've learned.
15:51
And it can get very complicated.
15:53
We can talk about all the ins and outs and the more skillful ways to communicate through that.
15:57
But we could almost say mindfulness is a kind of deep listening.

6 MINS LATER

21:53
What exactly does that mean? Explain to the listeners what you mean by Relationships Are Rough.
0:02
We've been building on this traditional practice of metta with phrases and categories.
0:12
And I thought I would offer some other encouragements and images maybe for our practice of metta.
0:21
And then I'll guide a practice that includes the categories that, that we've done so far.
0:32
I often like to think about metta being like running a magnet over your heart.
0:39
Because all, everything that's in our heart is gonna come out with metta practice.
0:44
When we do any of these heart practices, if it's loving-kindness or compassion or joy or equanimity, whatever's here is given permission to emerge.

6 MINS LATER

speaker_1UNKNOWN
7:18
[laughing]
7:19
So if you have two or three people who feel like they're in the friend category, it's okay.
speaker_2UNKNOWN
7:57
[laughs]
7:59
Okay, what are we gonna say about not-self? This is one of those mysteries that is hard to teach and hard to practice, but I'm gonna invite us into understanding.
8:11
I think we can, the way that impermanence is interwoven with this experience, not so much the intellectual understanding, but the experience of not-self.
8:23
No solid, fixed, independent, separate self here.
8:36
Okay, so I'm gonna start with not-self.
8:40
There's this classical teaching on the aggregates, and for the Dharma dorks, I'm gonna give you all the, the aggregates.
8:49
But if your mind is not in that place, all you have to understand is that we're an aggregate.

10 MINS LATER

speaker_3UNKNOWN
18:31
[laughs]
0:02
So I'd like to begin this evening with a poem by Ross Gay.
0:08
How many know who Ross Gay is? OK, some of you.
0:12
He was born in 1974 in Philadelphia.
0:16
Basketball player.
0:18
Has a collection, many collections, of beautiful poems.
0:24
Lovely names of these books.
0:01
Good morning, everyone.
0:05
How's the sound? Okay, it's on.
0:08
Great.
0:11
So it's good to be with you this morning.
0:15
I'll offer a few reflections and then a guided practice on mindfulness of the body.
0:25
So there's this wonderful story from the Sutras, and one of my most beloved characters in the Pali Canon is named Rohitasva.
0:01
Good morning, everyone.
0:05
How's the sound? Okay, it's on.
0:08
Great.
0:11
So it's good to be with you this morning.
0:15
I'll offer a few reflections and then a guided practice on mindfulness of the body.
0:25
So there's this wonderful story from the suttas And one of my most beloved characters in the Pali canon is named Rohitasa.
speaker_1UNKNOWN
4:36
[laughs]
4:37
Um, and we still-- we had our cushions set up.
4:40
We'd actually been given as a wedding present these beautiful like Tibetan rugs, cushions to sit on.
4:45
They were in our bedroom.
4:47
And he still practiced.
4:48
Even though he's not Buddhist anymore, he would still sit every morning very diligently, and I would sort of look at my cushion and just feel like I didn't have time, too overwhelmed.
4:58
And it was a real period of, yeah, stress, overwhelm, and, and sadness.

18 MINS LATER

speaker_3UNKNOWN
23:23
Mm.
speaker_2UNKNOWN
10:25
[laughs]
10:25
Such a good talk.
10:27
But that's a little bit what I'm talking about, like, you know, this term a blind creek.
10:31
It's these creeks, these waterways that flow under the ground, and that's a little bit how I experience passaddhi.
10:38
You know, working so hard in high school, teaching, and then this sense of like, it's kinda waiting for me under the surface.
10:44
Like, it is here.
10:46
It is here.

13 MINS LATER

speaker_3UNKNOWN
23:23
Mm.
speaker_1UNKNOWN
2:28
[laughs]
2:29
I was like, "Oh, it's the samadhi.
2:31
We're just sitting here meditating." [laughs] It really settled.
2:36
So this is really what I want to talk about, almost the alchemy of practice.
2:42
And the first days of retreat, I think we feel this alchemy may be especially strong because there's a lot of unpleasant vedana.
2:53
So I'll give a little review.
2:54
Some of you might be very familiar with vedana, um, but for those who this might be new or need a reminder, in the Satipatthana Sutta, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness Sutta, the Buddha lays out these four frames or four foundations for our practice.

18 MINS LATER

speaker_2UNKNOWN
21:03
[laughs]
speaker_1UNKNOWN
2:28
[laughs]
2:29
I was like, "Oh, it's the samadhi." [laughs] We're just sitting here meditating.
2:33
It really settled.
2:36
So this is really what I wanna talk about, almost the alchemy of practice.
2:42
And the first days of retreat, I think we feel this alchemy may be especially strong because there's a lot of unpleasant vedana.
2:53
So I'll give a little review.
2:54
Some of you might be very familiar with vedana, um, but for those who this might be new or need a reminder, in the Satipatthana Sutta, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness Sutta, the Buddha lays out these four frames or four foundations for our practice.

18 MINS LATER

speaker_2UNKNOWN
21:02
[laughs]
0:02
Okay.
0:05
So we were lucky enough to be with, uh, Dr. Judd this morning.
0:11
And Judd offered us this really beautiful and astute, uh, definition of adhiṭhāna as a full foundation or as a kind of steadiness, a courage, a vow to keep coming back to the moment with a lot of curiosity and showing how the research actually demonstrates this.
0:32
When we're with ourselves in this courageous way, we gather the wisdom, the information that we need to then act in alignment with our vows, with our intentions.
0:44
And that wisdom grows moment by moment as we're with each moment courageously.
0:51
So we're gonna pick up from that definition and all of his beautiful teaching.
0:02
Okay.
0:05
So we were lucky enough to be with, uh, Dr. Jed this morning.
0:11
And Jed offered us this really beautiful and astute, uh, definition of adhiṣṭhāna as a full foundation or as a kind of steadiness, a courage, a vow to keep coming back to the moment with a lot of curiosity and showing how the research actually demonstrates this.
0:32
When we're with ourselves in this courageous way, we gather the wisdom, the information that we need to then act in alignment with our vows, with our intentions, and that wisdom grows moment by moment as we're with each moment courageously.
0:51
So we're gonna pick up from that definition and all of his beautiful teaching.
0:58
And I wanted to start with a story.
15:35
Mm-hmm
15:35
... we've worked some with kink.
15:36
Like, all of this has been an ongoing conversation and change.
15:42
And then the, the third thing I talk about in the book is, like, sex and, like, a turn-on, it's not politically correct a lot of the time, and that's also this dismantling of, like, the good Buddhist.
15:54
Well, our bodies respond to what they respond to, and for me, being a sub is actually, what, because it's in alignment with the people-pleasing, but there's a very clear agreement around power, is great, right? It's, and it, we have to be careful in terms of, like, gender roles and all of that, but because we can be mindful about what's happening here and what's happening there, there's a lot of communication, consent, all of that.
16:19
And then there's a lot of freedom for play, right? There's a reason why this is called play, if we're clearly communicating, and we're also okay with all the textures of emotion that comes.
16:28
Sometimes I'll need to stop or hit up against a tangle.
20:19
Part of finding the erotic fire and letting it move through me, I'm trying to describe a real dichotomy in terms of conscious experience, and it sounds like the two of you are really aiming to be present in both at the same time? Or how does that work?
0:02
My father was 50 when I was born.
0:08
So he was a little out of the ordinary as a parent.
0:13
He had already lived a full life and had a kind of a side job that he worked, but mostly he was the stay at home parent as I was growing up.
0:25
So I have a lot of memories of my dad cooking.
0:28
He always made breakfast.
0:31
often with Cool Whip.
13:47
But I'll pass it to Devon for some more details.
13:51
Yeah, you know, I think we were just lucky to connect with Lamas who were willing to flex with us, and actually supported our, you know, innovation in this structure.
13:59
So, um, we connected with this wonderful transmission Lama in Canada who was willing to do all of his teachings via Zoom, and also give all the empowerments via Zoom, which is a little non-traditional, but we found actually it was like plugging into this, like, live wire of authenticity of the lineage.
14:17
It's, like, just us on Zoom, you know, sometimes up in the mountains outside because we didn't have electricity or reception in our cabin, and so we had to climb up the hill and sit out in the weather and get these big tantric empowerments, do these rituals with our Lama on Zoom.
14:32
So there was a lot of ways that it felt like we were adapting to the time and adapting to our particular situation.
14:39
A lot of beauty to that form.
14:40
But one thing that did happen was because we were our e- each other's only community, like our practice companion, our ...

21 MINS LATER

35:24
Devon, do you agree with me that the Buddha was avoidant?
28:56
What would you say to that person?
28:59
Well, I think it depends on what our intention is for the practice.
29:03
And in so much self-disclosure, you know, there's something cathartic, I think, about us telling our secrets to everybody.
29:11
Because for me, a huge, this was a huge practice for lots of years, was, like, overcoming this perfectionism ideal.
29:20
Like, "Oh, if I meditate, I'm just gonna be this perfect person who is," like Nico was describing, "calm and harmonious and at peace all the time." And recognizing that actually isn't even the goal.
29:32
You know, one frame we could say is that meditation makes us more human.
29:37
It's opening us to allow even more of the mess.
34:20
Mm-hmm.
18:14
Yeah.
18:15
Or with partnerships, it's like you find each other.
18:17
You have this blissful wedding, and then it's like after the honeymoon is over, you have to talk about money and kids and the household and where you're gonna live and how you're gonna live.So dukkha is like, it kind of has this big range of like, you know, starting from real pain, physical difficulty, like very real aging, illness, sickness, all of that.
18:37
But it gets...
18:38
The whole spectrum can go down into like very subtle dissatisfaction, to use the word that you just na- named, or this sense of stress.
18:47
Like everything's changing, we can't hold onto things, and so there's this underlying sense of, um, being ill at ease or like we can't actually fully settle because there's part of us that understands things are outside of our control, right? No matter how much I've, like, learned all the relational skills that we write about in the book, it's still gonna be difficult.
19:08
We're still gonna get into it, conflict, things change, people change, you know, all kinds of unexpected things arise.

33 MINS LATER

51:53
What would that be?
26:17
Yeah.
26:17
Some of my learnings.
26:18
I was thinking of back, I think I met you in 2004, which was before Nico and I met, actually.
26:25
And so all of your work around, like, the spacesuit and the way that we try to, like, get through these relationships, um, was a lot of, like, understanding my own people-pleasing tendencies, the sense of, like, I'm really conflict averse, and so [laughs] I want things to go harmoniously.
26:43
And, you know, for example, Nico didn't sleep well last night 'cause we've been away apart, and I was back for the first time, and it's different, you know, sharing a bed together.
26:53
And when he is, wakes up and is dysregulated because hasn't slept well, I'm, I'm dysregulated.
26:58
Like, I have a hard time with that, and so I watched myself this morning start to go into the trance of nice, of like, "What do you need? Can I make you coffee? Can I help you? Let's just make this okay." [laughs] But because I know that he needs space, I was also able to, like, kind of pause and, like, let him go to the gym, have some time on his own.

25 MINS LATER

51:59
[laughs]

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