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Devon Hase
Buddhist meditation teacher and author who teaches at Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock, co-guiding teacher of Refuge of Belonging; co-author of This Messy, Gorgeous Love.
22
APPEARANCES
9
PODCASTS
036
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Sep 13, 2026
Ep. 10: Nico and Devon Hase — This Messy Gorgeous Love (Practising the Dharma in real relationships)
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11:21Devon HaseGUEST
And we joke in the introduction, we say, like, "Feel free to skip ahead to chapter seven," right? If that's all you wanna read, that's okay.
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11:32Devon HaseGUEST
Um, but I will say, having been in retreat with those Yab Yum visualizations, with some of those deeper tantras, for me, it was very healing in terms of gender identity even, and the way that Nico and I sort of experience those polar opposites.
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11:49Devon HaseGUEST
I mean, first of all, I think it's very smart psychologically to get to envision your own body as the fruition and the kind of wholesome, the, the togetherness of both energies.
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12:04Devon HaseGUEST
And I think that it's even from Western psychology, like Jung talked about, you know, the anima and the animus and, like, em- embodying both of those was really healing for me.
13 MINS LATER
25:11
Did you- have you done much exploration into that sort of approach? And, and do you see similarities with, with the way that you're, the way that you're exploring these different energies, these different, um, qualities or personalities?
Devon Hase: Muditā: How to be a Backup Dancer (Retreat at Spirit Rock)
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4:46speaker_1UNKNOWN
[laughs]
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4:53Devon HaseGUEST
It's like, um, it's a beautiful kind of [smacks lips] putting together of all four and how they, they work with each other 'cause they keep each other in balance.
23 MINS LATER
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28:20speaker_4UNKNOWN
[laughs]
Devon Hase: Metta for Self (Retreat at Spirit Rock)
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0:06Devon HaseGUEST
Um, this afternoon I wanna share some reflections on practicing loving kindness for ourselves.
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0:14Devon HaseGUEST
And you might have read on your handout here, there's some very beautiful quotes, um, the Buddha says on the first page for metta, "I visited all quarters with my mind, nor found I any dearer than myself.
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0:35Devon HaseGUEST
Who loves oneself will never harm another." And then this modern rendering from Sharon Salzberg, "You can search throughout the entire universe for someone who is more deserving of your love and affection than you are yourself, and that person is not to be found anywhere.
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0:56Devon HaseGUEST
You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." So that seems convincing, but often we really are our own most difficult person.
36 MINS LATER
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37:08TracyUNKNOWN
... 'cause it's too much.
Devon Hase: Guided Mindfulness of the Body - Arriving on the First Day (Retreat at Spirit Rock)
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0:06Devon HaseGUEST
I hope that you rested well and maybe, uh, got to see the sky this morning some and that you're, uh, just feeling the beauty of this place as we arrive.
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0:22Devon HaseGUEST
There's a lot of nurturing, uh, here and recognizing, you know, we share this land with all the creatures.
Perfect Relationships Don't Exist, But Great Ones Do
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15:53Devon HaseGUEST
We can talk about all the ins and outs and the more skillful ways to communicate through that.
6 MINS LATER
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21:53Kevin AnthonyHOST
What exactly does that mean? Explain to the listeners what you mean by Relationships Are Rough.
Devon Hase: Metta for a Friend
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0:02Devon HaseGUEST
We've been building on this traditional practice of metta with phrases and categories.
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0:12Devon HaseGUEST
And I thought I would offer some other encouragements and images maybe for our practice of metta.
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0:21Devon HaseGUEST
And then I'll guide a practice that includes the categories that, that we've done so far.
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0:39Devon HaseGUEST
Because all, everything that's in our heart is gonna come out with metta practice.
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0:44Devon HaseGUEST
When we do any of these heart practices, if it's loving-kindness or compassion or joy or equanimity, whatever's here is given permission to emerge.
6 MINS LATER
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7:18speaker_1UNKNOWN
[laughing]
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7:19Devon HaseGUEST
So if you have two or three people who feel like they're in the friend category, it's okay.
Devon Hase: Like the River Flows: Anattā, Impermanence, and the Freedom of no Fixed Address
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7:57speaker_2UNKNOWN
[laughs]
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7:59Devon HaseGUEST
Okay, what are we gonna say about not-self? This is one of those mysteries that is hard to teach and hard to practice, but I'm gonna invite us into understanding.
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8:11Devon HaseGUEST
I think we can, the way that impermanence is interwoven with this experience, not so much the intellectual understanding, but the experience of not-self.
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8:40Devon HaseGUEST
There's this classical teaching on the aggregates, and for the Dharma dorks, I'm gonna give you all the, the aggregates.
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8:49Devon HaseGUEST
But if your mind is not in that place, all you have to understand is that we're an aggregate.
10 MINS LATER
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18:31speaker_3UNKNOWN
[laughs]
Devon Hase: Teachings on Rohitassa and Mindfulness of the Body
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0:15Devon HaseGUEST
I'll offer a few reflections and then a guided practice on mindfulness of the body.
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0:25Devon HaseGUEST
So there's this wonderful story from the Sutras, and one of my most beloved characters in the Pali Canon is named Rohitasva.
Devon Hase: Teachings on Rohitassa and Mindfulness of the Body
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0:15Devon HaseGUEST
I'll offer a few reflections and then a guided practice on mindfulness of the body.
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0:25Devon HaseGUEST
So there's this wonderful story from the suttas And one of my most beloved characters in the Pali canon is named Rohitasa.
Devon Hase: Peace and Stillness: On Passaddhi and Equanimity
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4:36speaker_1UNKNOWN
[laughs]
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4:40Devon HaseGUEST
We'd actually been given as a wedding present these beautiful like Tibetan rugs, cushions to sit on.
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4:48Devon HaseGUEST
Even though he's not Buddhist anymore, he would still sit every morning very diligently, and I would sort of look at my cushion and just feel like I didn't have time, too overwhelmed.
18 MINS LATER
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23:23speaker_3UNKNOWN
Mm.
Devon Hase: Peace and Stillness: On Passaddhi and Equanimity
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10:25speaker_2UNKNOWN
[laughs]
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10:27Devon HaseGUEST
But that's a little bit what I'm talking about, like, you know, this term a blind creek.
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10:31Devon HaseGUEST
It's these creeks, these waterways that flow under the ground, and that's a little bit how I experience passaddhi.
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10:38Devon HaseGUEST
You know, working so hard in high school, teaching, and then this sense of like, it's kinda waiting for me under the surface.
13 MINS LATER
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23:23speaker_3UNKNOWN
Mm.
Devon Hase: Niramisa Sukha: On Unworldly Pleasant Feeling
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2:28speaker_1UNKNOWN
[laughs]
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2:42Devon HaseGUEST
And the first days of retreat, I think we feel this alchemy may be especially strong because there's a lot of unpleasant vedana.
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2:54Devon HaseGUEST
Some of you might be very familiar with vedana, um, but for those who this might be new or need a reminder, in the Satipatthana Sutta, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness Sutta, the Buddha lays out these four frames or four foundations for our practice.
18 MINS LATER
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21:03speaker_2UNKNOWN
[laughs]
Devon Hase: Niramisa Sukha: On Unworldly Pleasant Feeling
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2:28speaker_1UNKNOWN
[laughs]
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2:29Devon HaseGUEST
I was like, "Oh, it's the samadhi." [laughs] We're just sitting here meditating.
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2:42Devon HaseGUEST
And the first days of retreat, I think we feel this alchemy may be especially strong because there's a lot of unpleasant vedana.
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2:54Devon HaseGUEST
Some of you might be very familiar with vedana, um, but for those who this might be new or need a reminder, in the Satipatthana Sutta, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness Sutta, the Buddha lays out these four frames or four foundations for our practice.
18 MINS LATER
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21:02speaker_2UNKNOWN
[laughs]
Devon Hase: I Will Not Abandon Myself
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0:11Devon HaseGUEST
And Judd offered us this really beautiful and astute, uh, definition of adhiṭhāna as a full foundation or as a kind of steadiness, a courage, a vow to keep coming back to the moment with a lot of curiosity and showing how the research actually demonstrates this.
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0:32Devon HaseGUEST
When we're with ourselves in this courageous way, we gather the wisdom, the information that we need to then act in alignment with our vows, with our intentions.
Devon Hase: I Will Not Abandon Myself
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0:11Devon HaseGUEST
And Jed offered us this really beautiful and astute, uh, definition of adhiṣṭhāna as a full foundation or as a kind of steadiness, a courage, a vow to keep coming back to the moment with a lot of curiosity and showing how the research actually demonstrates this.
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0:32Devon HaseGUEST
When we're with ourselves in this courageous way, we gather the wisdom, the information that we need to then act in alignment with our vows, with our intentions, and that wisdom grows moment by moment as we're with each moment courageously.
292. Can conflict actually bring you closer? | with Devon & Nico Hase
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15:42Devon HaseGUEST
And then the, the third thing I talk about in the book is, like, sex and, like, a turn-on, it's not politically correct a lot of the time, and that's also this dismantling of, like, the good Buddhist.
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15:54Devon HaseGUEST
Well, our bodies respond to what they respond to, and for me, being a sub is actually, what, because it's in alignment with the people-pleasing, but there's a very clear agreement around power, is great, right? It's, and it, we have to be careful in terms of, like, gender roles and all of that, but because we can be mindful about what's happening here and what's happening there, there's a lot of communication, consent, all of that.
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16:19Devon HaseGUEST
And then there's a lot of freedom for play, right? There's a reason why this is called play, if we're clearly communicating, and we're also okay with all the textures of emotion that comes.
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20:19Part of finding the erotic fire and letting it move through me, I'm trying to describe a real dichotomy in terms of conscious experience, and it sounds like the two of you are really aiming to be present in both at the same time? Or how does that work?
Devon Hase: The Rose-Apple Shade: Joy, Happiness, and Wholesome Pleasure on the Path
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0:13Devon HaseGUEST
He had already lived a full life and had a kind of a side job that he worked, but mostly he was the stay at home parent as I was growing up.
Ep. 177 - Love is Messy: The Dharma of Relationships with Devon and Nico Hase
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13:51Devon HaseGUEST
Yeah, you know, I think we were just lucky to connect with Lamas who were willing to flex with us, and actually supported our, you know, innovation in this structure.
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13:59Devon HaseGUEST
So, um, we connected with this wonderful transmission Lama in Canada who was willing to do all of his teachings via Zoom, and also give all the empowerments via Zoom, which is a little non-traditional, but we found actually it was like plugging into this, like, live wire of authenticity of the lineage.
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14:17Devon HaseGUEST
It's, like, just us on Zoom, you know, sometimes up in the mountains outside because we didn't have electricity or reception in our cabin, and so we had to climb up the hill and sit out in the weather and get these big tantric empowerments, do these rituals with our Lama on Zoom.
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14:32Devon HaseGUEST
So there was a lot of ways that it felt like we were adapting to the time and adapting to our particular situation.
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14:40Devon HaseGUEST
But one thing that did happen was because we were our e- each other's only community, like our practice companion, our ...
21 MINS LATER
nico and devon hase: Buddhist Volcanoes In Love
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29:03Devon HaseGUEST
And in so much self-disclosure, you know, there's something cathartic, I think, about us telling our secrets to everybody.
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29:11Devon HaseGUEST
Because for me, a huge, this was a huge practice for lots of years, was, like, overcoming this perfectionism ideal.
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29:20Devon HaseGUEST
Like, "Oh, if I meditate, I'm just gonna be this perfect person who is," like Nico was describing, "calm and harmonious and at peace all the time." And recognizing that actually isn't even the goal.
220 - This Messy Gorgeous Love
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18:17Devon HaseGUEST
You have this blissful wedding, and then it's like after the honeymoon is over, you have to talk about money and kids and the household and where you're gonna live and how you're gonna live.So dukkha is like, it kind of has this big range of like, you know, starting from real pain, physical difficulty, like very real aging, illness, sickness, all of that.
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18:38Devon HaseGUEST
The whole spectrum can go down into like very subtle dissatisfaction, to use the word that you just na- named, or this sense of stress.
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18:47Devon HaseGUEST
Like everything's changing, we can't hold onto things, and so there's this underlying sense of, um, being ill at ease or like we can't actually fully settle because there's part of us that understands things are outside of our control, right? No matter how much I've, like, learned all the relational skills that we write about in the book, it's still gonna be difficult.
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19:08Devon HaseGUEST
We're still gonna get into it, conflict, things change, people change, you know, all kinds of unexpected things arise.
33 MINS LATER
This Messy, Gorgeous Love—a Conversation with Tara and Devon and Nico Hase
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26:18Devon HaseGUEST
I was thinking of back, I think I met you in 2004, which was before Nico and I met, actually.
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26:25Devon HaseGUEST
And so all of your work around, like, the spacesuit and the way that we try to, like, get through these relationships, um, was a lot of, like, understanding my own people-pleasing tendencies, the sense of, like, I'm really conflict averse, and so [laughs] I want things to go harmoniously.
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26:43Devon HaseGUEST
And, you know, for example, Nico didn't sleep well last night 'cause we've been away apart, and I was back for the first time, and it's different, you know, sharing a bed together.
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26:53Devon HaseGUEST
And when he is, wakes up and is dysregulated because hasn't slept well, I'm, I'm dysregulated.
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26:58Devon HaseGUEST
Like, I have a hard time with that, and so I watched myself this morning start to go into the trance of nice, of like, "What do you need? Can I make you coffee? Can I help you? Let's just make this okay." [laughs] But because I know that he needs space, I was also able to, like, kind of pause and, like, let him go to the gym, have some time on his own.
25 MINS LATER


