So, so Des, what was your motivation for wanting to do this?

I think it was just so foreign to anything I've ever done before.

So I was kind of making this pivot off the roads, which was incredibly familiar, incredibly predictable, and that just was part of what really got stale about it.

It was like, I know exactly what training I need to do to run this time, and it might be 30 seconds faster, and it might be 30 seconds slower, but usually it's like r- And then it just became almost routine.

And so in switching over to ultra and trail, I think there's a lot of folks who saw a certain path of like, "Oh, you should do this race, and then that's gonna qualify for y- this, and then you're gonna go there, and you're gonna do that." Um, but I think this was about just charting my own path, and it, this was so unique, so different.

There's nothing to-

I was curious how you guys got linked up.

Yeah.

Is that something that you're struggling with?

I don't think so.

I thought it would be harder.

And I think the last couple years in the marathon, it was a challenge where you're like, I think I can do this one more thing.

I think I still have this in me.

I think I have a 224.

And you're just kind of banging your head against the wall.

right? How does YouTube play into all of this for you? How are you using that platform to tell your story, grow your audience, and continue to add value to the brands that you're working with?

Right

... it's an interesting thing in that there are multiple ways to kinda create this relationship and bring value to a brand.

I think for me, you know, what sets me apart is that it's just the loyalty.

It's, uh, the first brand I signed with, uh, I signed with them in 2005, I believe, um, and have really gone through the ups and downs with the brand and had-- we had our moments where renegotiations were, you know, tough and everyone's kinda fighting for their own interests and y-you could say like, "Oh, you know what? This doesn't make sense anymore.

I wanna take a bigger check," or, "I want this opportunity," or whatever it is.

Um, but we had the hard conversations and really kind of committed to each other, uh, several times over the years, you know, four to five-year contracts and you renegotiate them.

Um, and so I think that there's just been this loyalty with the brand and I think that's the people, that's the products, um, and that's them committing to me before, you know, I had done a single thing on the roads and giving me a chance.

... what you did with them?

Do you have any tips for embracing your mindset?

Um, I don't know.

I guess I just can't imagine being anybody else.

Like, I don't know why...

Like, I, I don't wear a ton of makeup.

When I do, I feel, like, off.

I feel like I'm putting a, a fake front on.

Do you tell them, like, "No, thank you," or is that, what's that dynamic like when the time comes?

Just touch on that a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the toughest things about professional marathoning.

So there's also, I mean, there's spring and fall major marathons, which is usually how we plan out our schedules, but there's also Olympic trials in an Olympic year, and those are every four years.

So that's one shot every four years.

And I think some of the hardest moments in my career, um, y- I, I think immediately to 2008, everything in my mind said that I was gonna make the Olympic team in that marathon.

It was my second marathon ever.

Training went super well.

... that get to experience that.

Describe the atmosphere at the starting line for us.

Yeah.

I mean, that's kind of a thing that we're sort of cut off from.

Like, I think if you're in the corrals, um, you're with, you know, your competitors, other runners, like, you're starting to feel that energy of what's out in front of you.

Um, you have the speakers going.

They're giving you the countdown, and then the masses are, um, you know, listening to the starts of the pros who start a little bit before.

We are in this Korean church or...

Break it down for us.

And I'm curious, what about the marathon? What about 26.2 miles lured you in?

Yeah, it was kinda accidental, to be honest.

I, w- when I was in high school and college, it was, like, ch... mile, 800 meters.

Like, 1500 is, you know, that's the sweet spot.

And it, even the 5K felt a little long, and I remember in college my coach saying, like, "Yeah, I think we're gonna move you up to the 10," and I was like, "I, I'll quit.

Like, don't test me with that." Um, but my last race, I think, one of my...

Like, my senior year, he was like, "Okay, it's time," and it was kind of too late to quit at that point, so I, I ran the 10,000 meters, and I ended up being second in the, uh, Pac-10 Conference, so Pac-10 at the time.

Um, what was your most memorable Boston run?

How do we how do we fix this? Like, what's your what's your thoughts from your perspective as an elite athlete? How do we start to begin to rebuild trust and fix this mess?

Yeah.

I mean, I wish I had an answer because I would sell it to all the world marathon majors and be like, yes.

But I mean, I think a lot of it is spreading the responsibility.

You know, I think it's like we can talk about Ruth Chepengedich and.

you know, point the finger.

But there's a whole system in place that allowed that to happen and supported it and, you know, funded it and rewarded it and all these different things.

As like growing a business and then also your, your, your partnership and your friendship with Cara as well.