Do you participate in any of those types of groups or do you think it needs to be like in the company? You're a partnership guy and you want someone to be with you in it.

I'm involved in two actually, and they're great.

They're probably two of the best decisions I've made in my career is joining those groups.

So I'm involved in a CEO group through the Independent Association of Corrugated Converters.

It's a box organization.

So it's independent box companies around the country.

And so through this organization called the AICC, the Association of Independent Corrugated Converters, we have groups and they're peer groups.

well,