Department of Immigration and Border Protection

As we'll hear, there's little about immigration that's straightforward.

Joining us is the first chief economist in the Department of Immigration.

Mark Cully took up the role in two thousand and nine.

That's how long it took.

But instead, what has happened is the permanent migration program places have been pretty stable, but the number of arrivals each year through the temporary migration channels has been greater than the number leaving, and that has been the principal driver of why we've had relatively high rates of immigration in the two decades since two thousand and six.

Of course, we should always remember that it's something of a vote of confidence in Australia, particularly after COVID, that we had that surge.

How to wrest back more control is what we're about to discuss here on The Economy, Stupid on ABC Radio National with me, Peter Martin, and our guests, Mark Cully, formerly the Chief Economist at the Department of Immigration, and Melinda Cilento, who's Chief Executive of the Committee for the Economic Development of Australia.

[upbeat music] Melinda, the Minister's unveiled a suite of tough measures designed to get him closer to the target, as, uh, hard as that is to directly control.

[instrumental music]

Well, with all the talk about migration at the moment, some of it, let's face it, not well-informed and, uh, or fairly emotional at times, I thought it'd be a good idea to get someone who actually knows what he's talking about, and that is Mark Cully, former Chief Economist of the Department of Immigration, also former Chair of the OECD's Working Party on Migration, and also, uh, head of Macroeconomic Policy at Treasury.

And Mark has published a book right now called Waves of Plenty: Immigration and the Making of Australia.

So here's Mark Cully, former Chief Economist of the Department of Immigration.

Mark, I'm hoping that you can help explain into how we got to this point with m-migration in Australia, and I don't want to start with, you know, the First Fleet and gold rush and all that, but perhaps a good place to start would be the end of the White Australia Policy in nineteen seventy-three.

What was the impact of that on migration in Australia, and what, what are the, the echoes of it now, fifty years later?

Ooh, okay.

And then it was changed again to the Department of Immigration and Border Protection.

Oh.

That lasted for four years, and then-

One Nation says it would protect those on the Pacific Worker scheme and working holiday visas.

[gentle music] Abul Rizvi, the former Deputy Secretary of the Department of Immigration, says One Nation's plan carries risk.

My main concern with what, uh, One Nation is proposing is the speed at which they want to bring down the population of temporary entrants in Australia.

Trying to do it when the labor market is strong does create significant risks.