Dentsu Group Inc.

Exactly.

And Casper had obviously seen that whilst he was signed as a talent there, that Gleam had just sold to Dentsu.

And I think why that's important is obviously Casper being that entrepreneurial instinct himself.

I think when I'd had that conversation with him, he thought, well, why can't I do that too? Yeah, of course.

Just do it.

Look, my experience with holding companies, I've worked at DDB, I came in at first born sort of around the sale to Dentsu and saw that company die over a number of years and i think the holding companies have sort of become a bit of a punching bag you know they're kind of the bad guy in the industry right now are there specific things like do you do you feel that sort of corporate model laid on top of let's call it creative people is just fundamentally a mismatch or do you feel like there are things that holding company model can do to evolve that would make those businesses more durable for the future and more relevant to to our buyers i

think There are aspects of it that make a lot of sense that I think are still needed and probably in the context of that moment in time made sense.

But I think the way that it's been executed hasn't made sense for the business that we're in or where the real value should be.

Again, maybe not a shocker, and they continue to use Omnicom.

I guess, Dentsu for Japan and South Korea, which wasn't even in review anyways.

And so this isn't a surprise, I guess, in context of all the news.

But still significant that, I guess, Omnicom is, I guess, replacing their lost business, Pepsi, which went off to Pulisic.

Yeah.

You mentioned Cathy Boxall, who of course is from Dentsu, which was in higher profile this year than ever before.

Agencies are looking closely at MIPCOM now because are brands becoming commissioners? Are they becoming commissioners?

Well, the branded entertainment thing is interesting, and there's a clear effort to bring brands more closely into the heart of MIPCOM.

The brand world is more fluid than that.

Some of the money is in brands.

Some of it's in agencies like Dentsu.

Some of it's in specialist agencies.

Coca-Cola in the news again.

They've split their global media account between Omnicom, WPP and Dentsu, having been forced into somewhat of a U-turn by Pepsi's recent wholesale shift to publicists.

It's agency musical chairs all once again, but how long is that arrangement actually going to last? We've got some thoughts on that.

Meanwhile, these Red Ocean agencies are fast evolving.

Coca-Cola didn't award WPP the North American business.

Instead, extended the invitation to other holding companies.

Most notably, Dentsu and Omnicom.

Because WPP said they weren't going to participate.

Yes.

But is Dentsu going to be one of those? Not if I can help it.

Dawn, thank you so much.

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