Dennis Brutus

But first, you pointed out that Chavismo's economic model was based on oil extractivism.

And I don't know if you're aware, but Dennis Brutus and Patrick Bond met with Chavez in 2007.

And Dennis Brutus, who I knew I worked with when he was in the United States, told Chavez pretty bluntly that you got to leave the oil in the soil for the sake of the planet and you need an alternative.

Are you aware that he said that? And were there other voices trying to put that forward to Chavez? Yes.

Well, I wasn't aware of this particular anecdote that you are commenting, but I am completely aware of the fact that Chavismo never discussed seriously a post-oil economy there was never even though the government claimed to be eco-socialist it even created a ministry of eco-socialism and eco-socialist mining and so on they like to use the term eco-socialism but in fact there was never any serious discussion of a transition towards the post-oil venezuela which is something that is crucial for socialists and and well, for anyone who is concerned about the climate crisis, the environmental crisis.