Denethor II

Or not John Noble.

John Noble's Denethor.

The dude from Pirates of the Caribbean 2 and 3.

Stephen Delane?

So today, you and I are gonna explore the mechanics of adaptation, character, and tragedy.

We are taking a deep dive into Denethor, the Steward of Gondor.

I am so ready for this.

Okay, let's unpack this because while fans of any franchise have spent decades debating the minute changes made to various characters when they move from book to screen, the differences surrounding this one specific leader reveal some profound universal truths about storytelling.

It really is the ultimate case study in the unavoidable friction that happens between mediums.

Friction is a great word for it.

Yeah, because to truly understand the character of Denethor and why Patrick Linder's analysis is so vital, we first have to reckon with the monumental, almost suffocating shadow of the adaptation itself.

Right.

And what this gives you as bringing a younger, irreverent, very often outsider point of view as a way of explaining an entirely new culture to us, which is how Pippin functions in Minas Tirith.

the actual content of the chapter sort of breaks down to arrival of getting to Minas Tirith, the confrontation with Denethor, and then what Pippin did next as he roves around Minas Tirith, which is great fun.

Anyway, to

introduce the fact that we're right there with Pippin is we have a very intimate start.

And then he notices other lights on the mountains.

And his response, because he's Pippin and he has no idea what's going on in this world, he says in alarm, are there dragons in this land? Wow.

There kind of is, isn't there? There's a dragon lord Denethor in spirit.

But no, there's not the actual dragons anymore.

Mm-hmm

... precisely what it is and therefore can be moved around modularly in, in a spirit of absolute domination and control, whereas what the people of Rohan and Gondor have to do is to give up control, and that's literal in the case of the current ruler of Gondor, who is the regent, the steward of Gondor, Denethor, who's been there f-

Mm-hmm

... his family's been in charge because the kings disappeared e- eons ago, and now he sees himself as king.

But the whole, the test of Minas Tirith will be, and that's in the third book, will be can Denethor give up control and give it to Aragorn? Give up control, give it to myth, 'cause Aragorn's a figure of myth who's coming into the modern world, in order-

Mm-hmm

... for the story to come to a satisfying and pleasant ending.

And so it's hard to point to the good guys and bad guys in this book in any definitive way-

And that only God can bring about the happy ending and engender the happy ending with more than just the ingredients that were already in the story.

What you were saying, Casey, was really resonating with me, and I was contrasting it with the seeing stones, the Palantirs, and Denethor's fate.

Because Denethor had, you know, the advantage, in quotes, of being able to see things that were real, but they weren't the whole story.

And it actually led to his despair.

Again, he was trying to figure it out with his own natural light's And then with also some, you might say, supernatural lights, but they were coming from the darkness of Sauron's manipulations of the truth.

Yeah, and is totally wigged out.

And it seems like

because of relative to his innocence, it's like it does even more violence to him than to Denethor, who's kind of, you know, more adult and built up this kind of, you know, evil tolerance for these things.

But if anything, the losses on the side of the Free Peoples were even greater, despite their victory.

King Théoden and Steward Denethor were dead.

Faramir, Éowyn and Merry were grievously injured and would take no further part in the war.

The Rohirrim had lost a third of their number, and Minas Tirith itself had its gates blown off and Lower Tyr set afire.

This became known as the Last Debate.

Gandalf was there, along with Aragorn and Elrond's two sons Eledan and Elrahir, Prince Imrahil and Éomer.

And Gandalf started by acknowledging that Denethor had been right about one thing.

The Free Peoples could not hope to prevail against Sauron's forces by strength of arms alone.

Not so much as to win new ground, but to keep everyone occupied.

If Thranduil was focused on defending his kingdom, he couldn't send any elves south to aid Denethor, for example.

Whether or not you think Thranduil or Dain or Galadriel or whoever would want to do that isn't the point.

Sauron didn't want any elves or dwarves helping out in the south.