Debra Oswald

... that we face, so that you're getting Jane Caro's "The Mother," which has family violence.

You've got Deborah Oswald's-

Mm

... "The Family Doctor." So writers are tackling things like family violence and crimes against women and children within the narrative and saying, "Hey, the law isn't doing enough for this."

But yeah, you do see that disconnect.

Um, but I think fiction has a really important role to play in that, to be able to explore that and build that empathy through those stories.

And if you write fiction in the way that I do, and writers like Jane Caro and, and Deborah Oswald are-

Yeah

But what we're seeing in authors like Jane Caro, The Mother, where the opening scene is the mother in the book buying a gun.

And then we see Deborah Oswald's The Family Doctor and pretty much the opening scene is a catastrophic family violence event where three members don't survive.

And so then you have the women that play out in those novels that say the law doesn't work.

We've tried the right way.

where, of course, Dr. Frankenstein creates a monster that becomes more powerful than he ever expects.

And

I think that in the targeting of women, and Jane Caro and Deborah Oswald are doing the same thing, in the targeting of women, they are creating monsters they can't control.

And

[laughs]

... by Deborah Oswald.

I remember Dags.

For Matthew Bevan.