So it's like we may be the same like coordinate on one dimension, but you are 25 years of different levels of experience to be able to solve a problem in three seconds now without you having to be there kind of, which you couldn't have done 25 years ago if you had wanted to.

You're right.

It's like you said, that spiral staircase, that's really like the same visual of DNA, right? That looks like a spiral staircase.

It never leaves.

It's part of you.

And when I did this 25 years ago, we didn't have AI.

We didn't have the ability to do the matching.

Generally speaking here, I want to look at this and be like, what's something you're building right now, right there? And what's one of the bigger challenges that you're facing with it?

Now, why do you believe the desire to pass on knowledge is such a fundamental part of being a human being?

Well, that's a great question.

And one that most people, when you think of mentorship, you think of the mentee.

the person who's getting the expertise or knowledge or values from someone.

But most of us, when we think of a mentor, it's a nameless, faceless individual.

But really, we're all built to give back.

We just haven't been talking about it.

Now, do you think society places too much value on success and too little on legacy?

Sure.

And I do want to reiterate, everything I said is exactly the same no matter what lifespan segment you're in.

Starting a new job is the same as retiring.

It's the same set of feelings.

It's the same situation.

So here's the thing.

You are going in hoping to be a mentee.

So tell me a little bit more on what you were part of building.

How can they also build a legacy that extends far beyond financial sources?

One of the things that we can do is to... look at all of our connections and we make impact all the time and we forget.

I call it impact amnesia.

You've probably done one nice thing for someone today already, and you're doing one now.

You're doing a podcast that makes an impact in the world.

People listen to it and they learn and they get some information.

But most of us forget about it right after we do it.

So now, Debra, looking back across your decades of research and conversation with people from every stage of life, What do you believe people most often misunderstand about what true giving life means? And how can we avoid reaching the end of our journey wishing we had lived differently?

What led you to this powerful intersection of psychology and purpose?

So I got into the field of psychology looking to be an aging specialist and going into aging research.

So when I did that, I thought of aging as something that was just everything no one wants to have or get.

I thought it was depression, frailty, anxiety, um, you know, palliative care, dementia, and all of those things.

And I was really excited studying all of that because it was, you know, something that I felt like I was be- able to make an impact in.

And then somebody came to me at a dinner party and said, "What do we have to look forward to?" And I didn't have an answer for him.

I was seriously saying to myself, "Oh my gosh, I don't even know for myself what I have to look forward to," because I knew that everything I was studying wasn't anything anybody looked forward to.

Mm.