David Owen

And so I think 25 years ago, if you had made a lot of money and were at the apex, most people built, uh, resorts.

And when you look at the history of national clubs, and again, if you look back far enough and if you read your colleague David Owen's, uh, amazing book, The Making of the Masters, and the struggles that Augusta had in forming a national club, it's almost unfathomable when you think about the success of Augusta National and the Masters today.

Uh, but obviously, those were trying times when they opened.

You know, Pine Valley, I think, had corporations own cottages at one point.

But, uh, anyway, it's, uh, it's good fun.

Yeah, I always give you a lot of credit amongst developers for being willing to reach outside the, the core group of designers who obviously are, are worth their weight in gold, with- which based on everything, their, their, their talent, their ability, their marketability, the, the critical reception.

But you have, you've tapped into these different sources where a, a colleague, uh, in your profession, Michael Kaiser, I always want him to kinda get outside of his box.

A- and, you know, he's got his own reasons.

Um, and I think I'm gonna be on a, a bit of a, uh, a run of reading up on this important issue.

And I talked to a lot of people, like, the river guides that know a lot about this, and they all recommended a book called, uh, uh, Where the Water Goes by David Owen as a, a book that's fairly recent but doesn't include, of course, the current few years of crisis.

Yeah.

Uh, and it, it's a good starter book.