right um so yeah anyway anyway that's

Yeah, like, it's a really tough situation if you are...

I mean, I was going to say an indie publisher, but it's really...

At this point, it's kind of... any publisher.

To make a board game, to print copies of a board game requires a lot of money.

It is expensive to put in an order.

And I know this because I just put in my first order for a game.

And all of the wonderful contractors that I'm paying, but like it's just me right um and so so yeah i'm like i feel like i feel like failing all the time right of like i want to be able to sign people's games i want to be able to move them through quickly and like i literally just can't and and part of that hesitation to say no on stuff is just because like i don't i don't want no to be the answer right i want yes to be the answer um And so, yeah, but it makes me question like, what am I doing? How am I contributing or countering, you know, the narratives that are out there? And it's just complicated and messy.

I guess, do you have any other things that you are thinking about when it comes to board games that are moderately analogous to these other mediums or just like drawing inspiration from them?

Yeah, so I got into game design as a more serious creative outlet because I felt like every time I either hosted a game night or brought a game to a game night, I was having to preface everything with an apology.

because so many of the games I was playing at the time were very old school in their theming and their mechanism executions, just like how they were engaging with their thematic content.

I wasn't super deep into the hobbyist game world yet.

I didn't really know what was out there.

So obviously, there were designers who were making things that responded to some of my concerns with these games.

But you bring something like Dominion to a game night, and mechanically, it's sound.

And... know your your game design there is a reflection on that that pack system yeah so the question then is is kind of like what does like that what does packs mean to you what does that pack system of games uh mean and and kind of how has that you know inspired your design and your work there