David Ludwig

Like, and we got sidetracked for so many years because we said, oh, it's because of the carbs or the fat or the protein, whatever it is, right? The nutrient, right? Rather than, which completely excludes the impact of the food matrix.

I remember David Ludwig had done a study of, and he compared sort of breakfast, but he had instant oats versus steel cut oats.

And remember they're the same food, but processed differently.

One is ultra processed and one has big chunks that are hard to digest and therefore cause You know, there's huge differences.

But we also know that high insulin levels drives the resistance.

And this is from a study from David Ludwig, a pediatric endocrinologist at Harvard.

And the real question is not that this happens, but what comes first? Because that's really the important question.

And what you can do is you can study juvenile obesity.

So again, this was something that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine and it was really a bit of a surprise to a lot of people that not only are they cause better short-term weight loss, but they also are healthier and they may have a bit better effect in terms of the durability of this.

Recently, a study was published by David Ludwig in 2012 looking at why this is.

And remember, we talked about the energy expenditure.

That is, after a certain amount of...

In other words, the insulin is making the diabetes worse.

And if you look at this from David Ludwig, he's a pediatric endocrinologist from Harvard, you can see that the insulin resistance certainly causes the hyperinsulinemia.

But the other thing you have to recognize is that the hyperinsulinemia drives the resistance as well.

But which one came first? That's the real question, right? It's kind of like the chicken and the egg.

So here, [audience laughing] um, by the minute, they found that from the moment they injected insulin, metabolic rates started to drop, minute over minute.

And remember, this is the kind of thing that happens anytime insulin is elevated, and, and we've seen this particularly in the work of Dr. David Ludwig at Harvard.

It doesn't have to just be type 1 diabetes.

Indeed, the same thing happens in people with type 2 diabetes who are put on insulin therapy.

Hey.

Uh, Michael Wood from Seattle.

Um, I was wondering if you could comment on the relatio- and if there's any connection between David Ludwig's study that he did on the- Two groups where they were both subcaloric from their metabolic rate.

I think they were, like, 1,500 calories-