What was your reaction, the reaction in Salt Lake, to another NBA franchise being taken down by the league?

Well, I come to this with a bias of having grown up in San Diego and having been in junior high when the Clippers moved there and had been in college when they left.

So I've always been bitter about that.

And so my first reaction was, of course it's the Clippers.

I don't think this is the first time somebody's tried to circumvent the cap.

I just think this was more blatant.

It was for more money, and they left a paper trail.

As a San Diego Padres guy, give me the reasonable best-case scenario here for A.J. Preller and company.

How do they articulate that value? And this might be an unfair question for you, but why do you think we are still talking about this?

I think it's a great question, and, and I think that, uh, that a lot of the time, we've touched on many of these points already, Jo.

Some of it comes down to identity and value.

We see ourselves a certain way, we operate in a certain way, but we wanna measure something different from who we are and what we offer.

So when we go back to the, the different levels of maturity, if you've got a reactive learning and development function without an L&D shop front, then you really should be measuring how many interactions you've got.

I mean, that's who you are.

Your value is, uh, the fulfillment of these ad hoc requests, so that's probably what you should be measuring.

You talk to a lot of people in your line of work and through your podcast, like brilliant thinkers and doers, so what are you hearing from them about the barriers that L&D face to becoming that strategic performance partner and for occupying that space?

with that sort of competition is amazing.

Yeah, and I lost.

I lost a few times as well.

Yeah, I mean, 13 years, I think, from my debut to my last game.

And because I like numbers, the way I look at it, it wasn't enough.

You know, it's less than four and a half a year, something like that.

And you kind of think what went wrong for it only to be four and a half games a year.

So we,

So we'll touch on skills-based organizations in a bit, but broadly speaking, is that the trajectory that you see for L&D at the moment from course factory into engine for growth?

Well, the way you frame that, Jo, I think is the, the biggest challenge, that you can't go from one to the other.

There's gotta be steps in between.

Uh, to be the course factory, it's not just the way that, that learning and development has chosen to operate, but it's the system in which learning and development is allowed to operate as well because it's the expectations of leadership, of the HR leadership within it and the workforce.

The content factory and the course provision is not just a very prevalent approach to learning and development, it's a very comfortable one as well.

So the ability to move and reframe doesn't stand alone with learning and development.

Now, if the question is should we, I think, by all means, yes, 'cause that's how we're gonna, uh, really reach the potential of our profession.

So what is L&D's role in sort of making that shift a reality, and what could th- Or should those partnerships look like for L&D?

Oh, man.

Dude, if I sit down when I, when I first stand up, it's like, "Ugh." [laughs] Dead le- dead legs.

Is it the, is it still the ankle? Yeah.

Ah.

But then it's like, dude, from walking in my boot, well, walking in my cast, [laughs] everything- Yeah ...

I, like, fucked my hip up from limping weird.

Ah.

She saw that Rolex gleaming.

How was it for us here at home, David? Did you enjoy that? What was your, your main thoughts?

Fabulous.

Second half was excellent.

Um, I mean, we were talking, weren't we, at halftime? That, that first half Sunderland side was pretty much first team, wasn't it? Which-

Mm

... you could see that continuity.

Second half with the changes, it allowed Liverpool to get more of a grip of the game, but I like the way they did that.

It wasn't, um, it wasn't forced in a bad way.

And I mean, how did you deal with that?

Well, well, it, it, it's interesting, actually, what Sue's saying there, and obviously with Paul's background.

I mean, we, we grew up as youngsters with that, uh, that exact intent.

It was horrible, acceptable, um, and cons- and constant.

And if you couldn't give someone worse banter than you just got, then you were laughed at.

Uh, and at the time, that was very, very normal.

I, I thought it actually gave us a good, a good lesson for when you're playing in front of thousands of people who are abusing you as well.

Yeah

it.

The worry isn't so much about, and this is what really got me, I didn't know the mistakes I was making.

Right.

Even though I can talk about not doing crossing practices, that bit was easy.

But again, technology today, halftime, you go into the changing room and the video comes out.

It's like, okay, okay, that's what happened.

All right, cool.

I think the semi-final might have been again, whatever.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, we dealt with...

I think the, the toughest summer we had w- with Capello, 'cause that was regimental.

I mean, we, [laughs] we didn't need Royal Marines, we had Capello.

Um, he was regimental.

Uh, there was a lot of restrictions on what you could and couldn't do.

But in qualifying it was fine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, and they do pre-qualifying, qualifying rounds to get into the first round proper.

By the time you see them on TV in the round three, that's, uh, they, they've done remarkably well.

So as a player, I started in round three most of the way through my career.

I joined Bournemouth, who are in League One, and I'm in the changing room in October or something, and I'm like, "Who are we playing next week?" And they went, "Oh, it's the FA Cup." And I'm like, "FA Cup?" And they went, "Yeah, starts in October at this level."

It's crazy, sick.

Yeah.

Uh, the one thing ab- and this is what I've experienced, especially this last few days, 'cause I've been down to Tampa, Nashville, obviously here now Chicago.

The Trump administration wants to reinterpret the Endangered Species Act so it would no longer protect habitats.

That'd be just devastating.

I mean, that, that's just ridiculous really.

Biologist David James studies insects at Washington State University.

It's not just butterflies.

It's every organism is linked to their habitat.

Without the habitat, they don't exist.

There can be no endangered species protection without that really.