David Ignatius

Right.

And it's not just Ukraine, right? I mean, there was a David Ignatius piece in The Washington Post, uh, I think last week, and I think I know who the sources for, for this piece are.

Um, they start with J and end with K and start with S and end with W, right? And the idea was the, the US wants to expand the problem.

So in other words, let's try to talk to the Russians, not on the basis of ending the war in Ukraine, but let's do what Putin has said he wanted to do in 2022, which is relitigate the entire post-Cold War-

We have the co-host of our 8 a.m. hour staff writer at The Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, co-host of the rest is politics podcast, the BBC's Katty Kay, contributing writer to The Atlantic, Eugene Robinson and columnist and associate editor at The Washington Post.

David Ignatius joins us this morning.

So on those numbers, Joe, with just about two weeks to go until the midterm elections.

New polling shows President Trump's approval rating has fallen to a new low.

He's declared war on a Western democracy.

Democratic power seeking to break free from the chains of the Soviet Union's former Soviet Union's ex KGB agent.

And we'll get to David Ignatius in a second about that.

But, Katie, you were in Michigan this past weekend.

Russia, negotiation between the CIA, the neocons, the Europeans, Witkoff and Kushner, and they're trying to put some sort of a plan together.

We know this because David Ignatius at the Washington Post has reported on this.

David Ignatius is thought to be the mouthpiece of the CIA.

So that was Kristanoff, who is a geopolitical expert.

And I want you to listen to an individual who is in or was in the intelligence world of the United States, former CIA, former State Department, former Special Forces intelligence officer.

uh that has produced rupture with ukraine and it's produced some sort of rupture with the united states so um anyway um i guess um you know this is like the the end of an ice age the snow and ice covered everything we thought um you couldn't see what was going on below the snow and ice now we can And it's a complete breakdown in common purposes with respect to Ukraine.

And therefore, it is, I think, properly viewed as a diplomatic opportunity for Europe to find an end to this war.

And I know there was a very interesting article by David Ignatius in the Washington Post outlining a plan for peace based on the rupture between Trump and Zelensky, which of course recognizes that one way to war, the most efficient way to end this war, is to remove Zelensky, who is entirely dependent on the conduct of the war to attain his leadership position in Ukraine.

On October 3rd, his peace envoys, Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, were meeting in secret in Florida with the Europeans and the Ukrainians.

According to the CIA's scribe at the Washington Post, David Ignatius, they were proposing a grand bargain for peace.

That bargain includes financing the reconstruction of Ukraine.

It includes guarantees that the U.S. and Europe will respond militarily if Russia attacks again, a very dim possibility.

So he has ex- you know, personal experience from business where he prides what he's done that tells him, "Be careful 'cause you can, you know, you can jump the shark." You can just become so completely unpredictable, uh, that people back away from you and then you can't get what you want.

[Instrumental music] David Ignatius joins me for a continuation of a conversation that was posted this week but recorded before the US military's mission to Venezuela to arrest the president of that country, Nicolás Maduro, and his wife.

It also occurred before a fascinating interview between President Trump and five New York Times reporters on Wednesday evening, January 7th, 2026.

David Ignatius is a columnist for The Washington Post and appears frequently on Morning Joe on MSNBC.

David, thank you for joining us.

Pleasure, uh, as always, Charlie.

Thank you.

Thanks as always, Charlie.