David Heinemeier Hansson

Just the last two.

You guys in DHH,

you

know.

So my pick is going to be, I don't know if Carl is going to be excited about this or not.

So Omachi, so Omarki, like whatever.

The whole thing DHH has rolled out with his Linux distro, whatever kind of type thing.

So I don't have any experience with Linux historically, but I had an old laptop and I've seen people talking about this online and it being a really cool thing.

So that's good.

Uh, but then you even have like folks like DHH, she's like, you know, that, uh, What does he do? He's always on Twitter and he's the guy posting about how he brought his company from cloud to on-prem and saved a bunch of money.

He's even on board with it, but he's like, hey, you could just do some sane principles here and help do a little bit of security and you don't have to buy a Mac Mini for this thing.

You can just run it on a VM or whatever, that type of thing.

I don't know where your sort of experience of the product is right now and the influence on humanity.

But so David Henson-Hellenweyer, who was DHH, Basecamp, 37 Signals.

Yep.

He was on the Lex Framer podcast.

So, yeah.

I find it weird.

And I've never listened to a ton of DHH.

It's funny.

At times, it's a struggle to, to know how to evaluate whether something is worthwhile to build because so many things feel so much cheaper now to build, you know? And there's definitely this, I feel like this vibe going on right now, like the...

I don't know if you've seen the DHH stuff with his, with his operating system on [chuckles] Twitter where he's like, "We can fix everything." Like, that's sort of his, like, mantra right now.

Or I think peop- uh, just so high on the AI productivity, like, every problem is solvable.

Don't worry, this will be the greatest thing for everybody, is sort of the [chuckles] is sort of the, like, the vibe, and I think a lot of people are latching onto that, feeling like we are-- we can conquer any task now.

I am going to the hotly debated Rails World the week after next.

And actually, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that, Jim, because this is an interesting time, isn't it, for Rails World to even be happening? [laughs] We have Moscap, which is Lucas Dolman's latest, or not his latest, but the latest attempt to fork Rails and get everybody off of it and using something else, and some new reasons to be polarized or to dislike DHH have come out lately.

Even most recently, this is not from a purely technical standpoint, our friend of the show, Matt Stultz, has talked about the revival of ViewComponent and gave this long, long dissertation about how Rails has lost its way from a architectural standpoint on the front end.

And kind of amid all of that, you know, here comes Rails World for its first US stop.

Yeah, I think you're right about that.

Let me say this.

There is some vagueness, right? When we think about open source for Rails, there is one person who is credited as authoring Rails, right? And that's DHH, and he still oversees all of it.

Of course, thousands of people have helped build Rails and have, you know, made it what it becomes today.

I don't know where your sort of experience of the product is right now and the influence on humanity.

So David Henson-Hellenweyer, who was DHH, Basecamp, 37 Signals, he was on the Lex Friedman podcast.

And if you are an AI – Like, if you experience AI negatively or have had bad experiences or are not optimistic about the future, some of the doomsday scenarios are terrifying.

I would listen to this podcast.

So, yeah.

I find it weird.

And I've never listened to a ton of DHH.

It's funny, the story I had in my head about him versus listening to him was very different.

And I think this is interesting because if it does expose designers, uh, especially within the hiring process or researchers in the hiring process, that they don't understand this and they're just following some playbook, then I think over the next few years what folks should focus on insteading, instead of following a playbook, if there is one, 'cause arguably there potentially isn't, uh, because we're reinventing so many things, then it becomes, uh, to the point that we mentioned earlier, um, how do you curate and hone in the skills of judgment, right? What is the right thing to build? Uh, that's hard in itself, what, like, you know, the right thing to build.

Or framed differently, what do we think is the best bet? Um, and I think, um, the company Basecamp, uh, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, have this really interesting process called, um, Shape Up, and they frame every project that they work on for at least six weeks, um, a bet, because that's what it is.

They don't know if it's right, but they're willing to put resources behind it.

And that framing, because the words that we use matter, uh, really helps shapes what the team thinks about what good judgment is.