Like what, what is going on?

Yeah.

So the, just to kind of set the stage, I always like to tell people when I track lions, we're, we're tracking lions, not hunting them.

So it's the whole pursuit of it is to experience the aliveness and the energy of lions, not to obviously see them dead or whatever it is.

And so when you're tracking wild lions on foot, it's, There is a chance.

It's fairly remote because most times what's funny is lions actually don't really want to deal with humans.

They don't understand humans.

Keep going.

So from your work, why are leaders within an organization expected to force their way through that kind of chronic stress and what is the cost to them as individuals and then to the organization?

Oh, man, OK, so, yeah, so so the.

I talk a lot in the book and tell me this is landing with what you're what you're asking, Jim, is I talk a lot about this idea of trying to effort our way through life.

And the distinction I make is that so much of us live just so intellectually.

So we live from the neck up and we're always trying to rack our brains and overthink things and figure things out because frankly, most of us, none of us were really understood how to connect to our entire nervous system, our entire body.

And, and so often it's, I feel like it's still rarely talked about when it comes to leadership of, of actually understanding like leadership to be a full body experience.

And so when I talk about the, the, the, the, the being out on foot with lions and experiencing lions, and I, you know, I, I opened the book with this story about having a lion charge at me from the left, because sometimes the lion, generally speaking, the lions don't run at you.

And if you think about on a physical level, what happens to our biology when panic actually overrides us? And how does the leader's ability to stand still stabilize the people around them?

Tell us a little about your personal life, some more about your work, and what motivated you to write the book.

Yeah, so personal life, I, I live in Denver, Colorado, and, and love it here.

Uh, really enjoy the, the outdoorsiness.

Obviously, the 300 days of sun is never a bad thing.

Um, try to keep up with y'all in Phoenix, [laughs] um, but we don't quite get the scorching heat that you get, so we're, we're a little sheltered from that with the, uh, elevation, I think.

So, uh, so that's, that's personal life.

Uh, professionally, I, uh, I'm an executive coach, speaker, now an author, which is exciting to say, and, uh, I work with a, with a, uh, executive coaching firm called Novus Global.

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