No.

He just seems like a rich dirt bag who used, like, his weird little rich dirt bag past to, to conclude, like, so much bad science, um-

Pluggables.

Sure.

Uh, Gamefully Unemployed, that's my podcast network with Tom Ryman where we talk about movies and TV, and that is it.

Those are the two things we talk about.

Uh, I think sometimes comics.

I don't know, man.

[laughs]

He's just...

So it's funny, 'cause like, I guess this is true for many of your episodes, but it's, it feels very true here, where it's like when you bring a bad person on, a lot of the bad shit they do is often around, like, a specific theme of, of things they believed in.

This guy's just an asshole.

Oh

... congratulating his cousin on the book Hereditary Genius.

Galton responded to his cousin with fawning praise, saying, "I used to be wretched under the weight of the old-fashioned arguments from design, of which I felt, though I was unable to prove myself, the worthlessness," right? He's saying like, "I used to believe in, like God had made all, and you freed me from that, Darwin."

you have tuned into a frequency that calls for all of us to build a kinder more compassionate future where all life can thrive our stories share how people all over the world are making it happen we're glad you're here

When I was young and growing up, and I thought about it for this podcast, and I won't quote these sorts of things very often, but a passage from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam came to mind where I would describe my childhood as both heaven and hell.

And I truly believe that.

Let's start with the heaven bit.

I grew up in rural Northern Ireland, County Down.

It's a beautiful place.

My dad was a dairy farmer from a long line of dairy farmers.

and

What would be the process of replacing a lead acid with a sodium ion?

Yeah.

Okay.

Really great question.

So I've had the fortune of going through commercialization process for a few different batteries and battery materials.

And every single application has a slightly different process for how you bring them to market.

But generally, you start out with just validating the design.

We usually start by thinking about lithium ion batteries for electric vehicles, but how is EV battery development now extending beyond lithium ion or advancing with the current lithium ion technology?

Mm.

As opposed to writing a check of $2 million right on day one and hoping I can turn that into 200.

Those are very different kinds of fund managers typically.

But yeah, absolutely, what you're doing as a potential investor is maybe you're doing it 'cause you wanna just be part of this ecosystem.

You're probably also doing it because you know something about that general partner who, who will have actually had to pitch you directly before you write a check.

You might know some other people who are LPs.

But yeah, it's, it's a real trust game.

Mm-hmm.

Where are we-- where, where are you at in the journey of CloneOps?

Yeah, I mean, CloneOps, when I, when I raised the money initially, um, it was the first time I had raised money for a business, and, uh, it was a little weird for me in taking investor money.

Uh, I take it very seriously, and so we went through, we burned through some cash figuring stuff out, and then we needed more money, and needed more money.

And then I finally got to the point where I said, "I'm just not gonna ask for any more money.

I'm gonna fund it myself.

I'm gonna dive in deep, be very lean and mean." I think we've raised a t- uh, total of 7 million total.

Um, we haven't raised money in nine months, and, uh, we're f- I'm, I'm funding it.

Um, is it hard not taking money when, when all these investors are trying to throw money at AI companies? Or is your view, "Hey, I'm building this to, to really build something substantial"? Like what, what, uh, how does that work?

Mm-hmm.

And just a couple of things that might be interesting for your audience, Paula, is if you wind back far enough you'll hear very famous venture capitalists, some professors, when the internet was sort of first a thing, there was this idea that the internet's gonna sort of obliterate the physical world and we'll buy everything online and there'll never be any stores again.

And obviously that's turned out to be t- completely untrue, right? What's actually happened is that the internet and the real world are not actually substitutes in the way people thought of in the beginning, is that they're actually complements.

They serve different kinds of people at different points in time, or the same kind of person at a different point in time.

Like you might wanna buy a pair of Warby Parker sunglasses online, use the home try it on with the software on your face, or you might wanna walk into the store on, on Green Street.

So with the benefit of hindsight we kinda see that these two things are actually very, very complementary to each other.

And even e-commerce businesses, to do well, typically have to have some sort of physical presence.

... how does that play a role in this story?

And I want to ask you, how important is this role of blood sport to the history and function of the book review?

Well, I mean, it's a wonderful writer, a contemporary of Virginia Woolf, Rebecca West, who wrote still one of my favorite essays ever, which is called The Duty of Harsh Criticism.

She published it actually in the first issue ever of the New Republic magazine in 1914.

And she talked about how, I think the line was, as the souls of men are going up from France like smoke, that is more important than ever to be serious about books.

And she said, if a book is bad, it needs to be pointed out.

And Again, one of the things that happened already in the 18th century, but into the 19th century, into the 20th century, right up to today has been in almost every decade, you have an increase in the number of books being published.

And over time, it looks exponential.

Yeah.

So wondering what, what, what-- would love, would love your thoughts on this.

So thank you, Rio.

So, um, some history on transparency.

Um, there have been a lot of non-transparent waves, and I call them the greed wa- grieve- greed waves.

So on one side you have greed, on the other side you have trust, and the pendulum swings.

Um, in Europe, particularly France, there was a wonderful situation where the agencies basically did not pay a lot for a service, maybe twenty percent of the value, because dirty little secret was that the media were rebating the agencies, and it was keeping the cost down.

That all came crashing down with a law called the loi Sapin, and it changed everything.

Mm-hmm

So like you say, just for a bit of context, it was only Sunday when I first got in touch with you and I've sent you, as you say, sent you down this rabbit hole now.

It's been fun.

It's been a proper trip down memory lane the last 24, 48 hours.

I've listened to a few of your recent podcasts, and I managed to find the episodes I was in, so I've had the embarrassment of looking myself on TV again, which is always quite fun.

But, yeah, we ended up – it really felt – the only real early memories I've got of it is we used to have to – We used to have to wait outside this sweet shop called Obertellies, just down by Cannons Park tube station, wait for the coach to turn up.

And we were always the last pick up.

So there'd be a coach would turn up full of screaming, horrible, smelly kids.

OK, so the final question then, David, and I know you've touched on this quite a bit in the interview, is why do you think there is still such affection for Grange Hill?

Have you adjusted your approach to the game? And is it because of the players coming up?

Oh, 100%.

I don't think you could coach in the league anymore.

But I'm year 22, I believe.

And if I coached the way I did in year one, I'd last... well i could make a joke there but i know i should bad timing is that higher today i wouldn't last very long i wouldn't last very long um no you you got to be more open to them and understanding and they're of the era of instant gratification and instant information and and why and and how does it affect me and what am i getting out of this and and and they're all fair and i and i have a 14 year old son that's in athletics and in the conversations i have with him and You just got to give them, sometimes they don't understand why, but you got to give them the why and let them dissect it, and they come back with more questions, and as long as you keep giving them answers, hopefully they'll figure it out.

Sometimes they don't figure it out for a week or a month, and then they come back to you and say, oh, I understand why we did that, and that's the satisfying and gratifying thing is when you see the light switch go off on a young guy that you're trying to teach him something, and they finally figure out oh, that's why we did it that way.

Okay, and that's a really cool part of coaching when you see that light bulb flip.

David, how drastically different is coaching pro to coaching junior? You've done both.

What has your work there uncovered about the role of advice and managed accounts in retirement?

Thanks, Simon.

First of all, I might just acknowledge Beck.

So the epic retirement tick, we actually view it as quite an important part of the system.

And the reason we say that is because if you look at the policy developments, for instance, the best practice principles, which Treasury set out, we think they're a really good checklist of what all the things that funds should be doing.

But when they were released, they just said they're aspirational.

There's no assessment against these and no measurement against that.

actually set out again in the

What are the two different types of funds that you're talking about?

Just really leaning into the demographics of the system and the way the system is set up and currently works.

And you can broadly split the universe into two types of funds.

One is stylistically, one is funds which have younger membership cohorts.

They, as a result of that, they tend to have lower average balances, but they're receiving high natural inflows because they've got more contributors and not paying out much in a way of pension payments.

Against that you have funds, which have an older membership demographic.

Often they're working, um, providing services for advisors.

So just outline briefly how you did this, what you did to examine this, and how this connects with what we're talking about here, which is the retirement theme.

But yeah, a very interesting case study.

Yeah, I love what you said there.

I'll just pick up on a couple of things.

So you talked about the function and the emotion, right? And I think Whenever we look at a product, sort of look through the three lenses of does it offer functional value? Oh yeah, it cleans my hands.

Does it offer emotional value? Oh yeah, it makes me feel good.

And does it offer symbolic value? So in the act of use, do I kind of look good in front of other people? I think touchline checks all three boxes, right? Whereas Purell maybe certainly checks the first one, like it does the job, but it's functional value.

maybe have emotional value.

Today's question is, how long is the typical timeline between a first and second fundraise? What should I plan for?

Of the businesses that you've invested in and you've looked at, um, which ones had the best kind of fundamentals from a marketing and branding perspective, and what did that, and what does that mean when, when you say that?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great question.

So I'll, I'll give um, uh, I'll give, I'll give three that are pretty accessible.

So I think, you know, diapers.com, uh, was a good brand.

It was actually part of a holding company called Quincy.

So Mark had a whole number of vertical websites that he created that were basically, um, non-perishable stuff into your home with great service and decent prices, right? So you had diapers.com, so all your kid stuff.

But then when you look at the whole story thing, you go, well, actually these guys are really thinking about what they're doing.

So what needs to be done on helping funds collect more data about members?

Yeah, we've always, or for long, many years now, we've said that funds should be able to have access to more data sources, which help them understand their membership.

And there's two benefits to that.

So that is, firstly, at a macro level, they understand their membership as a whole, and that can inform their business strategy and say, well, Where should we be directing our limited resources to develop products and services to help our different cohorts and members retire through? And that, that would be beneficial.

But then really here there's, and you can probably still do a lot of that research just by getting denamed data and so forth.

It's still difficult.

However, imagine if funds were allowed to get more personal data about their individual members, and that could be through sources like the Department of Social Security data or the ATO databases.

Why is it important to get those ironed out?

Right.

It's not new that it transmits person to person as it appears to have done on this cruise ship.

So the cruise ship, the MV Hondias was, uh, was, um, Hondias, sorry, was, uh, had about 150 people on board.

It left, I think, Argentina in South America, where a couple of people who got on had been out hiking in the mountains and been in contact, it appears, with rodents.

And they became sick on the voyage as it went down to Antarctica and then up through to a number of islands in the Atlantic.

Um, and so two people died, confirmed of hantavirus.

A third one died, may have been hantavirus.

David, tell us a little bit about how the WHO actually operates, under what basis?

Okay.

Okay.But the whole idea is that if we, is that, is, is recognizing this.

So, so if I could step a moment back, is to recognize this, is if you go back to 1860 to 1865, right, we have the Civil War, a big war.

By 1870, in 1869, uh, Grant becomes president.

And so when he becomes president, of course this, this hi- whole administration's a military a- administration.

That military ad- administration recognizings, recognizes one thing in a way that no administration recognizes prior to that, and that is they had fought a war.

The military had fought a war not to have two nations.

And this is the Disciples of Christ?

Where do consumer founders still get unit economics dangerously wrong today? We, we threw around a couple things there where like what's the cost to make this, especially if it's a multi-tiered distribution, and then even the costs around sending something in the mail physically.

Yeah.

I think there's sort of three, three things that you struggle with, right? So one might be if it's a product that's got any kind of repeat cadence to it, you're kinda overly optimistic about the chance with which that happens.

Uh, and it turns out that your repeat rate is not 40%, but it's only 20, so that could be a problem.

Number two, you might have acquired some of those customers by doing sort of brand dilutive things like, you know, offering people discounts, offering people free shipping, other kinds of things that kinda get the wrong people into the funnel.

And then thirdly, I think you said something interesting earlier about metrics.

I think younger generation, obviously like me, I'm in the, I'm in the X or [chuckles] the X or generation.

So how do you coach founders on thinking differently about uses of capital in a consumer model?

This Valeed isn't even real.

That's where you're wrong, cuz.

You always treat me like I'm stupid, but Caudell do not.

I done already made one deal with Valeed.

Got 20 large for one shorty, you heard me?

Nobody ever goes up to someone holding down the corner and asks to become a slave.

It's not personal.

I gotta do what I gotta do.

Now, is it kids of a particular age

you're aiming this at? Well, you know, you can't start soon enough.

We actually do recommend you start with pregnant mums, but because the exchange of bacteria between the mum and the unborn child is quite critical.

But when we're talking about, you know, infants, you've got to get them before they're five years old.

I can explain how that works.

So just, you mentioned belly bugs there.

Yeah.

Right.

No.

Um, where it's actually like, "Oh, we a- uh, we, we eliminate like, um, money, and we, we pour a bunch of efforts into medicine and lifting up the lower classes." No, none of that.

We just want fucking cool, smooth things.

... gotta plug anything?

I don't know.

Um, okay.

L- uh, uh, oh, oh, uh, Gamefully Unemployed, that's the podcast network I co-run, um, with Tom Ryman, and we talk about movies and TV, and, and, and, you know, stuff like that, the X-Files.

[upbeat music] Um, I am the head writer of Some More News, which is a...

[laughs]

I- that doesn't surprise me, I guess, but I mostly learned that if you're gonna put a bomb in your butt, make it a big bomb because it's all for nothing if you just explode your own butt.

Cool

... there's a network called Gamefully Unemployed, G-A-M-E-F-U-L-L-Y, Unemployed, where I, I talk about movies, not, uh, not genocide as much.

I do also...

I'm the head writer for Some More News, which is about news, so just, like, google Some More News, or just google news.

You'll find me.

I'll be there.

Yeah

... it's a movie podcast, mostly, and TV, or watch Some More News, uh, hosted by Cody Johnston.

News, uh, show, like a talking head new show.

I am the head writer over there.

What-

[chuckles] If I had a cousin jail, believe me, it would've gotten use when I was a kid.

kid....

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's like [chuckles] someone being like, "Hey, Twitter sucks.

Let me buy Twitter," and then making Twitter, uh, even worse.

Where it's like, if you, if you're exploiting, like, people's frustrations that are valid, you can sneak in all sorts of bullshit, I guess is my point.

Is it like that?

[laughs]

...

but beliefs that you're, like, you stand by, and you have s- certain rules in your life.