extent and how about to the business side of it was that also something you were figuring out

yeah very much yeah I made a lot of mistakes one of the biggest mistakes that I made would have been doing the design work before getting paid a percentage of the fee, even though at the start of a project, I would say to a client, it's going to cost this much and they'd say, yes, let's, let's, let's go ahead with it.

And I was just so keen to, to have the job and to do the work that I would share my ideas.

And that's essentially what a designer is being paid for their ideas.

So if you share this before any payment takes place, you're leaving yourself open and I can remember more than a few times when I would do the work and the client would disappear.

So my terms changed over the years where I don't begin the design work before receiving a 50% payment.

It's usually 50%.

which is perfect for me and now they're getting a bit older and they need me less it means more time that i can work uh how i want to work i guess on these things but yeah it's that never ending the fact that you can it never ends in my head as to what i could be doing i could be doing that i could be doing that I know I

Where do ASEAN CIOs see the fastest payback for things like data activation, where you get finance, supply chain, or customer service coming in together?

Through the conversations we have at Boomi with our customers, I think the consistent fastest return is in those high volume, repeatable processes.

So customer service is often the first one we see wins in, because naturally you're able to get better routing of those support calls as an example, which leads to faster time to resolution, or maybe on the sales side, you're able to understand your customer better, the buying patterns, and see where you can get improved cross-sell of products and capabilities.

Supply chain is typically next, and that takes the form of better forecasting, which leads to reduced stock-outs as an example, or where there's issues in the supply chain, you have faster exception handling.

And to your point, probably third, finance also benefits, so better credit decisions, um, understanding, you know, what loans and services you're able to give to your customer, or maybe collect some of those payments earlier or close some of those processes earlier.

So the pattern's pretty consistent, that data activation delivers the value fastest where those decisions are frequent, and they're directly tied to revenue or an improvement in customer experience.

If Asia hits a data wall, what would you say are the three non-negotiables for CIOs that need to turn AI spending into EBIT or earnings before interest and taxes?

It's interesting, 'cause again, I come back to some of the tenets we've talked about through this chat.

Ugh.

And designing for algorithms rather than the, the people that are gonna be involved with the design work.

So social platforms, they tend to reward speed and volume, and that seems to be shaping what designers are producing and putting up there.

You know, they'll be over and over and over, if you're on Twitter, you'll s- or X, you'll see just a couple of visuals.

You know, did I cook or something like that.

Or people will just want critical feedback.

Well, maybe they won't want the feedback.

Hmm.

Wow, wow.

Yeah, and it, it just...

Whenever you have relatives who...

Well, we all suffer.

Whenever you have relatives who die, it puts it into perspective what's important in life.

Um, and I visit her as much as I can, and my, my parents, they-- I can see the impact that the death of their parents had on them, and it makes me think about what impact that's going to have on me because, and...

Eckhart Tolle is a man that I listen to as well, and he talks about how if things are great in your life, just wait a while.

Oh, I bet it's cold, yeah.