David A. Treleaven

And so I sort of in parallel was watching this thing that you're describing in yoga happen in mindfulness.

with you know evidence practice but evidence-based practice and mindfulness mbsr you know movement i mean there was a book by david treleaven called trauma sensitive mindfulness that's sort of you know similar kind of process people are teaching this you know it's this nervous system orientation and then you know polyvagal theory developed in 1994 by stephen porges who i have the good fortune of working with directly for about five years um you know he puts like a kind of fundamentally legible or credible neurological underpinning under a number of these phenomena that, I mean, just to say it plainly, like these are parts of our human experience that are really fundamental.

They had been observed clinically.

I mean, a shutdown state was observed clinically after World War I, when you saw shell-shocked veterans coming back from the battlefield, and they were obviously extremely stressed out, but they were not like high mobile.

All you have to do is look at the sutras and you've...

It's, that's not what the Buddha says, [laughs] you know? And I was looking at this book, a very influential book called Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness by David Treleaven, which is worth checking out.

And I, I'm always...

I've looked at it many times kind of looking for what's his suggestion, and I haven't found enough.

Mm-hmm.

And then, of course, there's so many great resources now, like David Treleaven has a great book, mindfulness-based trauma-sensitive mindfulness and And maybe one other thing I'll say is that also came from the originator teacher, Michelle McDonald, who's an IMS teacher.

And she learned that herself because of her own history.

And then it feels like the way she taught us, the way that I learned mindfulness as a teenager from Michelle was trauma sensitive because she had to figure that out for herself.