Darrell Hazell

You know what I mean? And so th- th- that did twist the knife a little bit.

Because at least with the Darrell Hazell era, or really any time Purdue is trended down, they can look down the street and say, "Well, at least we're better than IU." And now, you know, [laughs] obviously that, that's out the window.

So, um, but you know, it, it, not even, th- they're not even to a point where they gotta even be having those conversations.

W- what Purdue needs to do right now is look at what Minnesota is doing, and look at what Northwestern is doing, and be like, "We wanna get there." So i- if you can get to the point where, you know, your floor is six or seven wins, even if your ceiling is nine, that's fine.

Oh, that's the guy that was at Purdue for two years.

I want to say Darrell Hazell, but he was years ago, right?

No, no.

That was...

Darrell Hazell was before Jeff Brohm.

Um, this guy took over for Jeff Brohm after, and he was...

What was his name? He was, uh, he was Bielema's defensive coordinator in Illinois, and then he got...