So don't we need to empower them to tackle things that they're completely unfamiliar with as well?

Well, so there are two things I'll say about that.

One is, yeah, so I would...

I could ease back.

Well, this is how I thought you were going to push back.

I could ease back a little bit from my strong claim, which is you might say, well, Dan, wait a minute.

You know what? If I know if I just know what a marathon is, but I don't know about the traffic blocking, like, couldn't I reason out? That, oh, maybe it's running the streets and da-da-da-da-da.

Or is there just a common knowledge that every human being should have?

How can we help students who have anxiety around tests specifically or even around learning in general?

Yeah, I mean, there are lots of things that we can do.

I mean, one thing to do is to assure students that a little bit of test anxiety is typical.

Most people get a little bit anxious before a test.

And a little bit of anxiety is actually probably helpful to you.

If you think of sort of a continuum uh of like one end of the spectrum is you know so anxious you can't function at all the other end of the spectrum is like you're in a coma you know you're just not you know you're way too uh right and so there is sort of a sweet spot uh and and that probably includes a little bit of anxiety Because I find that I have some students who say like, oh, I'm anxious, and they talk about it as if it's a disability.

And for some students, it is.

So what are some ideas for those out there who tend to procrastinate?

So you say that's why students don't like school, because learning requires thinking, I guess that's how you put it, right?

Yeah, I mean, when you think about this as an educator, the implications do seem a little intimidating.

It's like, so what I'm trying to get students to do all day is exactly what their mind is telling them to avoid.

But there's another side to it because people are curious, right? We've all heard a million times, curiosity is natural.

Humans are naturally curious.

And that's certainly true, but curiosity is also fragile as we all experience and those of us who are teachers see in the classroom.

Sometimes you're curious and frequently you're not very curious.

Were there people who disagreed with that?

He explained that information in long-term memory supports reading even without our realizing it.

It's inherent in communication, whether it's spoken communication or written communication, that we omit a great deal of the information that's actually needed to understand our message.

The example I use in The Reading Mind is the following two sentences: Tricia spilled her coffee.

Dan jumped up to get a rag.

So the thing that you'll note about that, I'm sure, uh, all listeners immediately perceive there's a causal connection between those two sentences, and indeed, almost certainly the writer would not hope that you understand just those two acts, but that Dan jumped up to get a rag because Tricia spilled her coffee.

Mm.

Now, that's nowhere in the two sentences, right? There's no hint that you're supposed to draw a causal connection, but nevertheless, you do.

And in order to understand how those sentences are linked, you need to have information in memory.

Um, and, and there's, there's just been a lot of conversation about it, and I wanted to, maybe Dan you can take this question on, of like how does knowledge and knowledge-building fit into this science-of-reading conversation?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great point, Melissa.

I'm really glad you, you started with that.

Uh, I think scientists see the science of reading as exactly what it sounds like.

They're s- um, reading is a topic that scientists have really looked at closely just starting in the last 20 or 30 years, trying to understand what are the mental processes that support effective reading.

Uh, and they've looked at that both in, in, um, people who are typical readers, so adults who are already quite fluent and quite effective readers, uh, you know, what's exactly happening in the mind as that process is happening? And then sep- a, a really quite separate question is, uh, what is re-Happening from a scientific perspective as children are learning to read.

Uh, the role of knowledge is clearly crucial in both processes.

Um, could you sh- say more about that? And, and Barbara, I imagine you have some things to share about that too.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and the, the thing about background knowledge is it's so important to not only reading, to, to just any, any communication, any language, spoken communication as well.

It's so important.

Your brain is so good at using it, it's so seamlessly integrated into the process of understanding, that most people don't notice it.

So let me give you an example.

This is actually an example from, um- Uh, I think I use it in Raising Kids Who Read.

Anyway, so suppose you read, uh, "Tricia spilled her coffee.

That's Z-E-N-N-I.com/podcast, promo code PODCAST15.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Right, so the- the coffee example, um, now if I can re- if I can remember the example, is sort of, yeah, that you think to yourself, "Oh, I want to put together a gift bas- basket for my neighbor, and, uh, but I don't have any coffee to put into it, so I'm gonna get some coffee when I come home." So, you're thinking about buying coffee in a way that you don't normally think about buying coffee, which is, I'm thinking about it in the context of a gift, rather than the way I normally think about it, which is a staple that I just need to have around my house.

And so then f- we go further in the example, so you have that in your head in the morning.

You're driving home in the evening.

You drive by the grocery store, and you think, "Oh, is there anything I need from the grocery store? No, I don't think so." And then you drive home and you see your neighbor and you think, "Oh, I wanted to get coffee at the grocery store," right? So, the question I pose is, why is it that when you drove by the grocery store, you didn't remember, "I need coffee?" And I've sort of given you the answer already.

You thought about coffee not in the context of, "Oh, I'm out of coffee, and I'm also out of sugar and whatever else," uh, and that would be sort of a grocery store way of thinking about coffee.

(laughs)