Daniel O'Connell

Yeah.

And very quickly then that trip and... journey uh extended in time and expanded you know so we would have traveled around with uh daniel o'connell wow okay you know and would have met him spoke spoken with him and uh they they gave this really prominent speech um in conciliation hall on burkey and stuff like that which was like it was just it was great because there was you know thousands of ordinary Irish people wanting to get in and see the speech and getting to hear him speak and stuff like that because they really connected with what he wanted to say these would have been people you know living under colonisation primarily Catholics who wanted you know to be liberated in society and were able to connect with what he was trying to say so yeah Yeah, I mean, he also speaks about the kind of importance of helping oppressed people everywhere.

Yes, the solidarity that you're referring to.

Exactly.

A wonderful time, in many ways the happiest professional time I've ever had.

Given that you visited Ireland frequently, I wonder, have you ever thought about basing a novel entirely around an Irish historical figure like Daniel O'Connell or Charles Stuart Parnell? Because there'd be a lot of opportunity to write about politics, including British politics, or indeed John Hume.

You know, I do sometimes think about it.

I mean, I love coming.

But even these elected representatives of the people are banned from RTE.

The banning of a legitimate organisation with elected representatives from both radio and TV today is the equivalent of the banning of mass meetings in the days of Daniel O'Connell.

But he said even before that, they'd only got about five minutes a year on the airwaves.

So it wasn't as if they were all over the airwaves.

...

they were saying that there was fascinating moments like playing at Daniel O'Connell's meeting at the Hill of Tara.

Yeah.

Wow.

Why exactly and how exactly was Cullen so important?

I think you have to understand that there was a gap in Irish history, really, between the death of Daniel O'Connell in 1847 and the rise of Charles Stuart Parnell in the 1870s.

And there's just one figure that sits in that gap, and that's Paul Cullen.

He was central to the politics, to religion, and really the whole range of events in Ireland in that period.

Yeah.

And what I also love then is the follow-up, which is that given that he was so influential and important and significant in the 19th century, and your book very much definitely demonstrates that, it shows that he was a figure of global importance.

How come when we think about Ireland in the 19th century, we think of people like Daniel O'Connell, we think of Parnell, Paul Cullen isn't really talked about very much now?

No.

People are friendly, but they really know their history.

Cab drivers will tell you about, uh, Daniel O'Connell, the liberator, or tell you something about the Great Famine.

They really know their history.

Ireland also, as you know, some of the main places that a visitor goes to in Ireland are shrines to martyrdom or awfulness or misery.