Is it not?

Well, and also because I write about three young women from New York who are having their quarter life crisis.

Everything they thought they were going to do, their career, the guy that they were going to date, and then they were going to marry and have children by the time they're 32.

All those things you start to realize, oh, wait, that's not actually happening for me.

And the one in particular, Doc Clark, she's like, I'm working in high tech PR and I don't like it.

And she wishes she'd gone into politics like her friend Kitty Bell.

And then Kitty Bell has an opportunity for her to go to Wisconsin, work on the presidential campaign to try to flip that state from red to blue.

unfortunately you

Speak to just how difficult of a job this is to have to be the president's spokesperson while having two children under two.

I remember when Sarah Huckabee Sanders had the job and we met early on and I said, I actually can't imagine.

I literally did not take care of a plant during those years.

And so women can do so much, but sometimes they can't do it all at once.

And I think that this White House has been not shy about encouraging people to have children early, get those families going.

And I think what's remarkable about Caroline, she's always exuded this confidence and a humility in her confidence and a self-deprecating humor that doesn't always come across at the podium because that's not necessarily warranted there.

But she has an ability to really understand who she is.

But in your mind, does that mitigate sort of the fallout at all? And has the White House done enough to solve the outstanding questions surrounding what happened?

Yes.

From Ohio.

He had crazy hair.

He worked on our floor.

He was a great pal of ours.

Heck, we were even friends with Ed Markey, who worked across the hall from us in the Rayburn House Office building.

So...

Why is civility in your judgment seen as a liability or a weakness today?

Dana.

[upbeat music] Well, the World Cup comes to a close with Spain bringing home the gold trophy yesterday, but it is not just about what happened on the field.

The tournament creating a lasting cultural impact on the United States and the world, from bag- bagpipes to the Viking row, and we have some highlights for you here.

[bagpipe playing] [feet stomping]

I mean, Da- Dana, what was your impression?

[clicks tongue] Uh, it was electric, and it was great and an amazing play.

I thought that Spain, uh, uh, I'm not a, obviously I'm not a sports analyst, but they obviously dominated.

But the goalie for the Argentinians probably earned all of his pennies yesterday.

Deanna's husband's Peter's here, but we're going to talk to him in

just a minute.

Any book is a tremendous amount of output in terms of energy, right? So a lot of the questions I would get is, when did you write this? I know.

So I did it Saturdays and Sundays from 11 to 4, usually, with some other things here and there.

I would take notes during the week.

I would think about it a lot.

But I actually didn't do any writing until the weekend because the day job's busy.

Have

And I liked telling that story because I wanted to tell young people, especially young women, that-

that-If you're born in America, you won life's great lottery.

Okay? That was George Bush's line, and it's so true.

And even for me, um, in 1997 when I decided to leave Capitol Hill and move to England, uh, to be with this guy I met on an airplane, uh, we've been married 28 years, but when I decided to do that, I, I was going through, like, quite a quarter-life crisis, and I look back at that time and think I was way over-worried.

And then since I wrote the other books, there are a lo- a lot of them are mentoring books, uh, life lessons for young women from a former young woman, I noticed that the c- the issues don't change.

There are all these things, especially for girls, that you, you start to believe that everything you've planned is, since it's not happening on that exact time schedule that you laid out, that, you know, you, you have an identity crisis.

Maybe you chose the wrong career.

[laughs]

So why this book, why did you decide to make the leap to fiction and how did this whole story come to you?

Well, thank you so much.

Um, The nonfiction, that was fabulous to write.

And The Good News Is was really about how does somebody from, born in Wyoming with no political connections or family money that was donated, we didn't donate money to campaigns, end up being the White House press secretary to a Texas governor, and i liked telling that story because i wanted to tell young people especially young women that if you're born in america you won life's great lottery okay that was george bush's line and it's so true and even for me um in 1997 when i decided to leave capitol hill and move to england to be with this guy i met on an airplane uh we've been married 28 years but when i decided to do that i was going through like quite a quarter-life crisis And I look back at that time and think, I was way over worried.

And then since I wrote the other books, a lot of them are mentoring books, life lessons for young women from a former young woman, I noticed that the issues don't change.

There are all these things, especially for girls, that you start to believe that everything you've planned, since it's not happening on that exact time schedule that you laid out, that know you you have an identity crisis maybe you chose the wrong career you're not meeting the guy nothing's happening on your time frame and until you let that go or force a circumstance where you make a decision to take a risk like these young women i have them leave manhattan the place they love so much and dot who works in high-tech pr decides she wishes she had worked in politics so she's taken a flyer she's gonna take one year and go see if she can hack it on the campaign trail and she convinces her two girlfriends to go with her.

I think the other reason I wanted to write it is because personal ambition.

How about, you know, you're talking about it in a dating format, but what about in your own family? I mean, do you have like people in your family and how do you deal with them if they're coming to you and you have political disagreements?

Yeah

... you are researching and your facts and it's like y- you're, or like for me it's memory and my mentoring advice and it's very specific and easy.

Not easy.

That's, it's never easy.

But like, you know what you're writing about.

For this, I had to create a world and characters and their descriptions and their feelings and to, and to talk like them and to think like them, and I think what probably will surprise some people is that I write about it in a very, I think, generous way from a Democrat's perspective.

[laughs]

And I started to tell her all the reasons that I thought I couldn't, and she said, "Don't give up this ch- chance to be loved.

also don't do it for that.

No, but every third book, like I'll read a deep book.

I love it, like a deep historical fiction, deep literary fiction.

And then I'll read something lighter as kind of a palate cleanser.

And then I like a variety.

I don't typically like popular fiction.

That's not my thing.

You immediately get into the, well, well, if that's, you know, and if we all just take a breath.

Absolutely.

So I feel like that should be a bigger issue.

It never is.

I've wanted that since I was in college.

And it just happens to be more of a local issue.

And it's unfortunate because really, I don't think Democrats see it that way.

That is a national issue.

Well,

But like your version of it, I always think is kind of funny to hear because sometimes it's not always right.

Well, first of all, thank you for having me.

I love this podcast.

I listen to it every time there's a new download.

And you even accommodated me and posted it earlier for me for my day.

One of the reasons I love it is because you used to do the written version, which I also asked you to do because you have great thoughts.

They've helped me so much to think things through.

met

Yeah

...

in some ways, right? Because you do the White House briefing, you might appear on television.

80% of the job is done behind the scenes.

You're taking press calls all day long.

I always believe that a press secretary's best work is never seen, uh, maybe because you stop a bad story from happening.

[laughs] And also, I think the...

And you sort of, what you said, related, seemed to relate to it, but let's just talk about that with, with respect to Dot.

Dot's the big one.

Okay.

Um, I think of Dot Clark probably the most like me.

She starts off her career in public relations, and she chose high-tech PR 'cause she thought she could shoot up the ladder that way.

That's where all the money was, and she wanted to be a part of a big PR firm.

She starts working there, and it's not great.

And she's also in a relationship that she doesn't really wanna be in, and he's about to propose.

Yep

I mean, um, is this a little bit of you in this book?

There's a little bit.

Certainly, Dot Clark's the main character.

And although I'm now much older, [chuckles] she's twenty-five in the book, and she's going through what many young women go through in America, maybe throughout the world but certainly in America.

I call it the quarter-life crisis, and that's where you start to realize that all of these things that you had planned aren't necessarily coming true and that maybe you chose the wrong career.

And usually, it's about not being able to find a guy that you want to settle down with, and where's the romance? And you thought you and everything would be perfect, and it's not, and you start to say, "Oh, my gosh, maybe I'm in the wrong direction." And it takes something like a, an adventure like Dot, Mary, and Harper go on to go work on a presidential campaign.

Um, of course, they're-- I write it from a Democratic point of view.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

And so Kitty Bell, in the movie, she's the one who has the money for the win, FTW, which is, I think, is funny.

Remember in the, in the book, Mary goes, "Doesn't she realize saying for the win-

... read it like, you know.

I think it was great 'cause both of you read it and loved it, and then I have friends, like, a mother and a daughter, who both read it at the same time, and they both loved it, so I feel it's great.

Oh, wow.

So I would get up early, walk the dog with my husband, do a little exercise, read The Wall Street Journal, have breakfast, make a big thing of green tea, and then say, "I'll see you in a few hours." And I went upstairs.

My husband was so supportive, and I would just take notes or thoughts through the week, and then I would just start to write this story.

I had this idea because I am concerned...

I know you talk about it all the time, too.

I think Americans believe that we're more polarized than we actually are.

I think once you get off your phones and you meet people where they are, there is more commonality, more neighborliness, more American patriotism that supersedes ideology.

You were in that position.

Oh, wow.

So I would get up early, walk the dog with my husband, do a little exercise, read The Wall Street Journal, have breakfast, make a big thing of green tea, and then say, "I'll see you in a few hours." And I went upstairs, and my husband was so supportive, and I would just take notes or thoughts through the week, and then I would just start to write this story.

I had this idea because I am concerned...

I know you talk about it all the time, too.

I think Americans believe that we're more polarized than we actually are.

I think once you get off your phones and you meet people where they are, there is more commonality, more neighborliness, more American patriotism that supersedes ideology.

I know that's a little bit nai- I, I'm not naive.

You were in that position.

Wow.

And it was called If I Were.

And I had all these things like, if I were a cat, if I were a pig, if I were a dog, if I was a horse, if I was a hippo.

And I did illustrations and wrote these stories.

Um, and I think kids, especially ones who, that like to read, you have e- early aspiration to be an author.

And I never really let that go.

And yes, I've written nonfiction, but this was a real departure from that.

And you're not surprised.

... of who everyone is so you can keep flipping back."

Yes, and, uh, you have to...

I made some little character sketches.

So for example, some of the non-main characters are Jean and Ted Jankowski, and they own Reader Falls Bookshop in this fictional town.

And so I would make sure I remembered, like, what color hair does she have? How did she dress? She was from England.

She has an accent.

Um, and I think about Danny Dawson.

And you're not surprised.

What's the book telling everybody out there?

So, it's called I Wish Someone Had Told Me: The Best Advice for Building a Great Career and a Meaningful Life.

And I'd done a book before called Everything Will Be Okay.

And actually, I remember you all had just started your show together, uh, when it wa- when that book came out, you had me on and it was such a fun conversation.

I remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that.

And that book was really targeted to young women going through their quarter-life crisis.

This book is post-COVID, and it is not geared just at young women.

You know, if, if you're, if you're looking now for the, the people out there who are gonna be grabbing this book, if, if there's one thing that you want them to really take out of it today, or rather one thing that they would read and you hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible, Dana, what would that be?

What's the book telling everybody out there?

So it's called I Wish Someone Had Told Me: The Best Advice for Building a Great Career and a Meaningful Life.

And I'd done a book before called Everything Will Be Okay.

And actually, I remember you all had just started your show together and when, when that book came out, you had me on, and it was such a fun conversation.

I remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that.

And that book was really targeted to young women going through their quarter-life crisis.

This book is post-COVID, and it is not geared just at young women.

You know, if- if- if you're- if you're looking now for the- the people out there who are gonna be grabbing this book, i- if there's one thing that you want them to really take out of it today, or rather one thing that they would read and you hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible, Dana, what would that be?

This would all happen to you?

I didn't.

No, and actually one of the best things about writing a book of mentoring advice now is to be able to look back and think, you know, I tried to plan my whole life away.

Um, I worried my 20s, uh, away, and when I wrote my first book, And The Good News Is., one of the reasons I chose that title is that you realize that the plan that you have, uh, is the thing that God laughs at, and that the real plan is the one he has for you, and that's what ended up happening.

Um, I, I would say that the previous book I wrote mentoring advice for was for, just for young women.

This new one is more broad-based, and it includes great advice from all sorts of our different walks of life and our colleagues and people like Mike Rowe, Dierks Bentley, people I've come to know at Fox, but I'm really impressed by Lawrence Jones' contribution because what does he say? He said, um...

I said, "How did it impact your career? Was there somebody who made a big difference in your life?" And he said, "Sean Hannity," and that you gave him three rules....

Tell us some of the advice that you're giving in this book for people.

(laughs)

And it's legal and thank God I had the DOJ training 'cause I'm like, "Whoa, there's so much that's going on." And I'll never forget he said, um, "So in the days after 9/11 our president had to make a really tough decision and it was really tough and we had to ask our men and women to do some very difficult things, really difficult, and, um, I'm just here to tell you I promise you it saved lives." And I trust this person implicitly and I said, "I got it." And I went out and I had kind of the easiest briefing I'd ever had and the reason is because I knew the ultimate decision had been correct.

And I don't expect people to agree with this end decision but can you respect the decision-making process and- and the reporters know that I know what the decision-making process was, and I did.

Partly because I made sure but also because President Bush was happy to have me there with him to be able to watch, learn, listen, pay attention and I knew... and I'll tell you one story that I love but I don't think I tell in the book, uh, at least not in this one.There was a morning I woke up and, uh, uh, all hell had broken loose in Iraq and Maliki, the prime minister at the time, had sent troops into Basra to help protect the Sunni who were being persecuted by the Shia, and the British ha- had lost control of the neighborhood.

It'd been a problem for quite a while.

And Maliki overnight sent troops into Basra.

And I have all these reporters, "What's the president comment? What's he say? What's he say? What's he..." And I'm like, "Guys, can, c- can you just let me wash my hair and I'll be there? Like, give me a second." This is all by email.

Bush was not painting while in the White House.

Your thoughts.

I paid a lot of attention to it and I think that I...

This goes back to years and years ago when I...

I've worked in Republican politics for a long time, and even way back in like the late '90s, the, uh, Democrats were calling Republicans Hitler.

And I remember Newt Gingrich when he was a speaker saying, "This isn't going to get you anywhere because where do you go from there?" And we've seen where we've gone.

I, I respect Larry David as an actor.

I love watching him.

... "How do I reach him?" So, or put a card in there.

What's the book telling everybody out there?

So, it's called I Wish Someone Had Told Me: The Best Advice for Building a Great Career and a Meaningful Life.

And I'd done a book before called Everything Will Be Okay.

And actually, I remember you all had just started your show together and...

When, when that book came out, you had me on and it was such a fun conversation.

I remember exactly where I was standing and where we did that.

And that book was really targeted to young women going through their quarter-life crisis.

You know, if- if you're, if you're looking now for the- the people out there who are gonna be grabbing this book, i- if there's one thing that you want them to really take out of it today, or rather one thing that they would read and you hope they could apply to their lives as soon as possible, Dana, what would that be?