I'm wondering if you can kinda walk us through those, and then we can talk a little bit about where people might find themselves, and how they can move from one to the next.

Great.

So this concept of five phases isn't new, new.

It's not my idea, but using frameworks like these help people identify, "Oh, I'm, I'm kind of in this phase, and this is my next step to get to the next phase." And I think that's really helpful for a lot of people.

At least to realize, "Oh, I'm not alone in feeling certain ways that I do." I think the first phase of a sexual relationship is the newness phase.

This is where you start to establish your patterns.

Like when my wife and I were newly wed, everything was on the table.

Mm-hmm.

So Dan, we are, like we said, talking today about sexual shame, and I just wondered if you've got a story about any time in your life where that showed up for you.

Yes.

So I was married, 22 years old.

My wife and I was 22 also.

Very little sex education besides, you know, how babies are made.

And now I'm a newlywed.

I've been married a week at this time, and sex is this most amazing thing.

[laughs]

Since it's going so well,

right? Exactly.

So he's in his undergraduate program.

He's undergraduate.

He's not even in the master's program yet.

He's got to get four years of college.

This is a very long game.

So tell us a little bit more about it.

And I'm thinking the meetings, because I mean, when I was going through that, I think the meaning would go to

town.

So it's created there a different thing.

Yes.

Sure.

I was talking mostly about pornography use first.

I haven't really got deep into the masturbation aspect yet.

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