For you, like when does that sort of become an interest for you?

Look, it become an interest once I actually moved to the Gold Coast.

Uh, obviously I've always been into fighting like as most, you know, r- red-blooded males, you know? [laughs] Like we, we, we love it.

So, um, but for me, it was never something that I thought was obtainable.

I never really thought of it as...

You know, I think it's more something you either gotta be a part of the sport or, uh, grown up in it, et cetera, you know, to, to really be a part of it.

Um, but once I got up to Queensland I ev- I eventually joined a gym, and I was doing it more to set an example for my sons.

... con them into doing it?