But talk to us a little bit about the course specifically and what do you love about it, and what advice would you have for people running it?

Yeah, I think...

They don't even pay me to say this.

I think it's the best course to run, to run fast.

Um, you start up in Two Harbors, where it's very quiet, and a lot of the first half of the marathon is pretty quiet, and I think that's really helpful because it crescendos as you get closer and closer to downtown Duluth, so you stay within yourself for a really long time.

Um, I lo- not a lot of people love this, but I love that you pop out by the lake, and you see the lift bridge, and then you go back in, and then you see it again.

[laughs] You get closer.

Just tell us what did that feel like, and did you imagine that it could be before it happened?

And when you've done that many, I'm kind of curious, how much do you change from block to block, year to year? How much has your tr- Uh, has the evolution of your marathon cha- training changed over the, over the time? Or, like, what stays the same and what changes, I guess, is the question.

Hmm.

It's a good question.

Honestly, I don't feel like my training has changed a ton.

I've always been with Chris Lundstrom, um, since I left college.

So his training theory obviously hasn't, doesn't change wildly.

He'll, like, throw random new workouts in occasionally, and we kind of give him feedback like, "Hey, let's never do that again.

... you know, what has he done for it?