Craig Oliver

But [laughs] but no, I, I definitely though never wanted any patterns or any earrings that were gonna be, um, distracting or anything like that.

Uh, but I remember early on I may have put on a voice that I remember vividly Lloyd Robertson and Craig Oliver, two of my mentors, used to say, you know, "You don't have to try to push your voice." I'm going back decades.

Um, and I probably was i- in some way trying to sound ... tougher or something.

Anyway, thankfully, thanks to them and their-