So we got to kind of ask ourselves like, okay, no matter what's happening, what good can we get out of this thing? You know, instead of labeling it something or...

Well, and how can I actually join them in a real experience of what they're having going on? I mean, we had this just go down in our house last night because we're empty nesters.

Our youngest is 19.

It's the second year off of college.

But what's changed as a big bogey in our world this summer is my wife's mother is now living near us because she's got dementia.

And there's four siblings down here in the Dallas area.

So we moved her down here after a fall and breaking her arm while she was at our house this summer, lived with us for a month.

So in your training and schooling, did they ever address how to keep the experience that you're hearing with a client or patient, I should say, compartmentalized and not bring that home with you or not let that affect your emotions or bring something out of you?

So like is betrayal something that your spouse does to you? That's the question, I guess.

I think of it in terms of it's not something they do to you.

It's collateral damage you have to face, though, of something they have done to the system and to themselves.

Because there's other things going on here as well, right? Because, I mean, even if you take Esther Perel's work of how happy people she has discovered do cheat, right? It's not because somebody was just unhappy and they weren't getting what they wanted in a marriage.

And that was the reason why they strayed, which would lead towards this belief that if we can just get what I want in the marriage, I won't stray, which that's just not true.

So how do you how do you settle yourself down knowing I'm in a relationship with somebody that's not safe? And that's not a question we ask very often.

And that's the stuff that gets blown completely wide open when there's a betrayal or when there's any kind of lie about something or any because, again, this is where you start to get into the nuance.

They're

... adjust my perspective.

Mm-hmm.

Well, yeah, I use the terminology if I grow solid enough to allow all of that to still be existing and it not ruin things, right? I can go do something that my wife isn't excited about, but she chooses to go with me, and she's not having as much fun as I deem she should be because I'm having more fun, and I can let her mood ruin my experience.

Or I can realize, hey, I'm still here enjoying something I love, and I'm with her, plus the fact that she's not all excited about this, but look at this.

She's here.

She's making the most of it, you know? And we get so caught up in that Disneyland fairy tale Hollywoodization of what love should be when no, love is exposing of us.

Love is exposing of a relationship, too, of it shows our differences.

Well, um, tell us a little bit more about Sexy Marriage Radio, and you have a, you have an offer for listeners today?

So how would you respond if like that betrayed person was kind of in that scenario? Yeah.

Well, that's so then the, in that instance, which is makes complete sense.

They're personalizing what happened within the relationship dynamic.

So then you start trying to unpack it and help them start to see, wait, they betrayed the relationship that you guys have committed to.

You, you get the hurt from this.

That is valid.

That is real.

Do you find that valuable for people? I