Mm.

And, um, and that is, you know, very typically, you know, under- undercooked in, in venturing more broadly.

Um, you know, a lot of venturing is great technical people that know a space well and, and see the, see the potential in a, in a technical solution.

Um, whereas, you know, by the time we've come up with a, with a concept, you know, we've probably had 100 conversations with, with marketers and, uh, with potential ICPs in, in that space.

And, you know, the dis- discipline around that, the starting with five ideas to, to three to, to one, um, and, and really refining, uh, refining down from the learnings of every conversation is, is key.

And so, um- I think a lot of founders sort of, uh, skip or pay lip service to that discovery kind of process, and, um, it's been where we've invested a lot of our, uh, time and effort from a model perspective and, and has been certainly beneficial, um, in that respect.

So what role does understanding the customer play in creating successful products?

Yeah.