Commander of the Indonesian National Armed Forces

Because you're not just investing at those individuals at that rank, you're investing in that person over the span of their career.

And one day you might find that that junior officer that you met on a military exercise or one day or another is all of a sudden the Panglima, the chief of the armed forces.

And so there is a longstanding story of trust, of interaction, breaking down barriers, opening up dialogue, and hopefully sharing of ideas as well.

Now, in terms of your point about a contradiction of Prabowo leaning more on the military and the kinds of implications that can open up, I would say Australia has had a very pragmatic view to the TNI, for better and in some cases for worse.