What separates marketers who consistently progress in their career from those who plateau?

Yeah, really interesting question.

I mean, marketing typically is seen as a cost exercise for a business, right? And And I think this has got to change.

And, you know, the last couple of years in the New Zealand working landscape, business landscape have been, you know, quite challenging.

And so more and more businesses are looking for commercial outcomes.

They're focused on top line and bottom line.

And what role marketers play in this equation is going to be really important.

Can you give us an example of, I'm going to try and put you on the spot because I know you're very good on the spot, is can you give us an example of perhaps a recent person who was able to progress into a CMO role or where they kind of did all that kind of key planning work?