So how does a leader maintain their integrity then to in that position of leadership when especially if someone has come from like within the ranks and they're being promoted? And again, maybe there's some issues there, too, but we want to make sure that we are still people of integrity no matter what position that we are in.

Yeah, so let me first just say that the biggest issue related to internal promotions, of which I love and I think are absolutely necessary for us to build teams, is it's really hard to employ people who were your peers before.

And I think that if we don't give them some support in that aspect, they're really going to struggle.

And I've seen it over and over again.

And I have my right hand in this organization at Vantage is originally was a technician.

So he's worked through the entire operations organization from almost the very bottom to the very top.

And I think he would agree that that's one of the biggest things he struggles with.

But what can they do kind of through those transitions and helping their staff as well?

How do you navigate difficult negotiation and conflicting priorities?

Well, I tell you what, that's probably one of the hardest things to do because it's easy when you can walk up to someone and say, this is why we're making this change and this is the benefit for you.

That's easy, right? Because who's going to look at that and say, oh, I don't want to work where I can accomplish more things or that I can grow my responsibility or whatever.

But that's not always the case, right? And in some instances, we're making changes because we are more expensive than our customer is willing to pay.

And the only way that we can get to the point where we can grow our business is by taking costs out of the system.

Now, when I say that, it may not be that that person is going away, but it may be that they realize, hey, my population of employees within the organization is going to decrease because that's the only way we can be competitive.

that's a hard conversation.

I

Yeah.

And if you're in a highly capital intensive business, that doesn't really make sense, right? Because the depreciation is the allocation of that equipment over its life cycle.

And so you're basically ignoring that aspect of it.

So I like to compare the multiples that I would pay on an EBITDA basis to the multiples that I would pay on a net income basis.

And that will give you a better idea of really what the return is for that entity.

When it comes to less capital-intensive, higher-margin businesses, it tends in the U.S. especially to be a multiple of revenue or net earnings.

And I'm fine with that as long as I have experience in the business.

Yeah.