So maybe talk us through how that works and how you all are leveraging that that tech.

Yeah, lots of questions there, George.

Yeah, sorry.

Let me go back to the report and kind of lay the groundwork and the map because I think that's what kind of help people orient.

So when I started researching this and the focus is, okay, how can we put Bitcoin to work, make it a productive asset? The miners were using TradFi and derivatives for the longest.

That was the most proven out.

So that was kind of avenue one that you could go down.

So I want to know how you guys are thinking about going to market with like these yield opportunities, like who you're talking to, who's interested in taking advantage of them.

Yeah.

And again, building on the shoulders of Giants here, a lot of people to cite in the report around this, the specific one I want to call it here is Nick Batia.

And he was probably the closest he actually had kind of what he thought is maybe a native yield from Lightning.

And I kind of sharpened that a little bit more to include the rebalancing and on-chain fees to make it a little bit sharper because this is really what you need to think about when you're deploying to Lightning is what are all the costs involved and how can I actually calculate my yield here on Lightning? And so LRI is Lightning Routing Income, and it's basically the net yield on your capital deployed to Lightning.

And I talk about in the report that this is...

the third basically big category for how to get returns on Lightning.

Is that correct in that sense?

Yeah, Pascal.

Yeah, you're hitting right to the center, Pascal.

So all right, no easy questions to start off.

So I would say that I'm going to stand on the shoulders of giants here with Selgin, and I'm going to use his definition with his synthetic commodity money, which is basically a combination of Absolute scarcity plus there's no non-monetary use for it.

And so that's what I kind of started with the paper.

And that was really the important thing in the paper is building on all the research that's been out there.

I ended up with 98 sources, I believe, and the oldest was back in 1921.

So, yeah, can you maybe comment on this as well?

Yes.

So maybe let's start with your view on what type of asset is Bitcoin for you? Because I think we need to kind of set the stage to then deep dive regarding this discussion.

Yeah, you're hitting right to the center, Pascal.

So, all right, no easy questions to start off.

So I would say that I'm going to stand on the shoulders of giants here with Selgin, and I'm going to use his definition with his synthetic commodity money, which is basically a combination of Absolute scarcity plus there's no non-monetary use for it.

And so that's what I kind of started with the paper.

And that was really the important thing in the paper is building on all the research that's been out there.

I ended up with 98 sources, I believe, and the oldest was back in 1921.

So that would be good.

Um, so can you kind of jump off from there? Tell us a little bit about why you went and made this report.

Yeah, Stefan, there, there's a lot to unpack there, so feel free to cut me off and, and let's narrow it down at any point.

But I think big picture, you're right.

You named three companies that are doing what I would term native yield in terms of putting your Bitcoin to work, but that's three companies out of 120 public companies, you know? And there are more if you go private companies that are actually holding Bitcoin on the balance sheet.

So even though we can name a few, I don't think it's anything close to being a commonplace thought process.

And I think when, when I was first getting into Zeus, thinking about, okay, how are these treasury companies looking at Bitcoin on the balance sheet and putting it to work? I thought, all right, well, what are the frameworks they're already operating on? And as I started to dig into that, I realized w- there's not a lot of even structured frameworks that people are thinking through.

They're just kind of following the leader.

Can you elaborate on, you know, methods of keeping it secure? Is it things like VLS? Is it things like what the Async guys are doing? Is it, you know, what are some of the ways that the professionals are keeping their keys online but still secure?