So tell us what... originally drew you to diversity, equity, and inclusion in workplaces?

Well, thanks, Luke.

It was actually as a child.

Growing up, my father was the first Black teacher, first Black principal and educator in the area, the region where I grew up.

And I had a front row seat every night at the dinner table when he and my mother would engage in a conversation and she just asked, you know, honey, how was your day? And he would then proceed to tell her about the challenges, the obstacles that he faced being the first and the only.

And he didn't just talk about the challenges that he faced.

He also talked about what he did about them.

Yeah.

And

we shouldn't be doing that.

We just shouldn't be.

We think it's... appeasing the minorities who come here with culture that clashes ours to just ignore it and just to let it go on but what's happening is now it's growing it's getting more as you're saying these marriages are now not taking place overseas and coming here they're not sending them off to Pakistan to get married they're forcing them to get married here and the point that you made as well about the um the youngest child the age wasn't able to be that they weren't identified for jigsaw identification reasons but there was also speculation about it might be that some of these children are being promised from birth zero years old they're already being forced to marry these men i mean it's as somebody who's lived in london my entire life it's it's devastating to see that this is something now that appears commonplace or is increasingly becoming so

are they going to access enlightened discussion like this? Exactly.

Well, it's ridiculous, as you say, that they're introducing legislation to limit the freedoms of people under 16 and say, no, no, 16 is not old enough to view this certain context.

It might, you know, you're young, you're impressionable, you might fall influence to the wrong right wing people.

And then at the same time going, no, no, you're responsible enough to have a say in the future of the country.

navigate that?

Yeah, you know, it's so critically important.

We're at an age where people, there's so much uncertainty.

There's uncertainty in around the impact that AI is going to have on jobs.

There's the impact that it has on the standpoint of, if I don't fully understand it, what's going to happen to me? And what does that mean for my livelihood? There is the impact of the changing environment from an economic standpoint.

Different industries are impacted by what's happening economically and socially as well and politically.

And so there's a lot of just stress.

And what's the best, what are the best practices to navigate that?

But maybe you would like to share with us a bit what was the first diversity, equity, inclusion initiative which you drove that genuinely surprised you maybe with its impact in a positive way?

Well, you know, it's so interesting.

The first initiative when I got into that role was a misstep.

But the unintended consequences were very positive.

So I went into the role, and this would be around 2013, 14, somewhere around then.

I said, okay, let's do an analysis of the organization.

And instead of doing a holistic analysis, my analysis simply was around looking at the people data and percentages.

Now my question is, is there a meaningful distinction from your point of view, Celeste, between companies that held the line and those that folded? Or was that just largely a question of who had built something real versus who had built something just symbolic?

And

so, you know, I was like, OK.

And I ended up getting the internship.

And so I interned there throughout the whole summer in White Plains, New York.

And it was like, hand the glove.

I was like, this people get paid for this, you know? And it was like, I was just basically helping people talking to them about their careers, helping it, it to be better work environments, um, you know, helping them develop in their careers.

And, and I just, I, I just loved it.

We were

Mm-hmm

... and been happening, and it just continues up through your adult, adulthood, unfortunately.

But, but the, y- you have to address it.

You really, really do.

'Cause, uh, I'll never forget when I was young, I was starting out, and I had a...

I just got promoted to a man- manager, and I had someone, I was a training manager in the manufacturing site, and I had a supervisor who, training supervisor, who reported to me, was on the third shift, and just was not working at all.

Everyone knew he wasn't working, and I was getting all riled up.

Can you tell us about your book and what's in it?

But what do you do when people say that? How do you respond to that without blowing your [laughs] blowing your top? What do you say?

Well, you know, I've, I've been in discussions with where it's the hiring manager, they have a job opening, and it's, and the recruiter.

As the HR leader, I, you know, I might be sitting in these meetings and the manager says, "Okay, these are the skills I need, the capabilities, the years of experience, what those, that experience should look like, and, you know, whether it needs a degree or doesn't need a gr- degree." And then the recruiter says, "Got it, got it, got it.

Yep, okay.

And I'm gonna make sure that I bring you a diverse slate of candidates too for you to choose from." And then the manager says, "Oh, wait a minute, I want quality candidates." And so I'll stop the conversation there and say, "Okay, why did you feel a need to say that after the recruiter heard all of your expectations of the role, and then said they were gonna bring you quality, qual- you know, candidates, a diverse candidate slate?" And they usually hem and haw on this and that, but it's just a teaching moment.

And I say that, you know, "Well, you need to understand they're gonna do their job.

You've told them what you need, the requirements of the role.

You know, how do they support but avoid the backlash? What's your suggestions there?

And so I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

On an individual level, you can, if you're a manager or a leader and you manage people, you can do exactly the example that I talked about, the one-on-one meetings with your team to understand them.

That's one thing that you can do.

Another thing is be aware of the system around you.

And so I talk on my website, there's a link to equity and action model for modules for managers.

And it's just really each module, it's a mini module, about 15 minutes each that You can hear about how you need to go through this aspect, but first is awareness.

You need to be aware of what's going on around you.

And then what are you hoping readers are going to walk away with thinking about differently?

So why would my daughter get paid a lot less than their male counterpart in 2026? I wonder what is going on in this country.

It didn't crop up overnight.

It didn't take a long time to try to fix it.

And it's unfortunate because...

Let me back up.

It shouldn't take a long time to fix it.

Because if you see and you do the analysis with your organization and see that there's inequities when it comes to pay, then how you rectify it is by closing the gap.

Where

Mm-hmm.

Ooh.

Um, whenever I didn't get something that I wanted badly, um, from the standpoint of your career, from the standpoint of things that you learn in your career.

So I can remember I went to a, a role, um, and this was with the first company that I was with.

I, and, and, um, 'cause I was with a few different companies before I came to, came to Merck.

And, um, I can remember getting a job and, um, um, I came in with, uh, uh, about four or five other people at the same time, and we all had similar type experience.

Bye for now.

[upbeat music] I wanted to talk a little bit about equity, what it is, what it isn't, and why everyone wins if we get it right.

Right.

And at least the ability to bring those perspectives into the workplace and be respected because they have the, the, those belief systems.

You, you, you may not believe in the same thing that I do, but at least we have, we can have the conversation and agree to disagree, but you'll respect me and what I believe in and my perspective.

So that's very, very important.

They wanna be able to see people who look like them as well.

They wanna be able to see environments where, you know, kind of getting back to what I was talking about earlier, where inclusion is not just a word or a program or an after, uh, a lunch and learn or, or this, but it's literally living and breathing through how they bring people into the organization, how they source talent coming into the organization.

Where do they go? Do they just go to the same old, same old places that are, you know, thinking that it's, well, it's fit for all, but it's really this narrow window? They're only letting certain people come into the organization when they need to widen the gates.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

And so when I talk about it not being a program or an initiative, it needs to be, uh, a, um, an integral part of how a leader holds him or herself.

It needs to be part of leadership skills and capabilities that are mandatory for people to be, uh, leaders within an organization.

Um, it's, it's, uh, it's about, especially in this day and age, when you have, uh, such a stressful environment, and you keep hearing about mental health and mental wellbeing and how that has just really, really increased in importance in a workplace, psychological safety, all of these things that decades ago they called soft skills and nice skills, and, you know, It should be all about the business, and we don't care about those soft skills.

Well, fast-forward to today, with all of the different generations in the workplace, a leader has to make sure that they understand how to listen empathetically, how to demonstrate inclusive leadership, how to make sure that their work environment is psychologically safe.

Um, they're creating an environment where people feel engaged, empowered, and they have a sense of belonging.

That's a critical leadership skill and capability.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I, uh, when I grew up, it was, um, it was one of the last steel mills in Western Pennsylvania to still be open.

[laughs] Um, but when I was growing up and coming, coming up into my formative years anyway.

But, you know, I saw my grandfather after he worked in the mill for, you know, most of his life and, um, raised his children, my father being one of those siblings.

Um, they all went to college and were all professionals.

You know, um, teaching, nursing, education, government, everything.

And so as the steel mill started going down, um, you started to see, you know, joblessness.

Mm.

Because if you don't integrate inclusive practices into your people practices, you're leaving talent behind.

I'm not sure what it means anymore, and so educate me.

Yeah, absolutely.

So diversity, and I'll use it in the context, diversity is simply differences in people, those you can see and those you can't see.

Um, inclusion is, um, where you want to make sure that all those people with all those different perspectives, skills, capabilities, backgrounds, identities, and life experiences, you're trying to get them to a collective purpose in an organization.

It's the mission, vision of an organization, for example.

And so you surround them with this culture of inclusion so they s- have a sense of value and a sense of belonging that they can contribute.

Now, where equity comes in, to get everyone with all of those differences [laughs] to that collective purpose, you have to meet them where they are.

Um, w- with that said, so, uh, uh, tell me what is it that a leader should know and do with this information to make sure that they get the right people around the table that can be unified in order to get, uh, to drive the best outcomes? So make it actionable for me.

So for you to just set us straight, what is the good definition for DEI?

Yeah.

So I don't even use the acronyms anymore, Dean.

I say the words diversity, equity and inclusion.

So diversity is simply the word means differences, differences in people, people, things you those differences you can see and those you can't see.

Inclusion is how do you include and create a culture where you can get all of these people with all of these different skills, capabilities, identities, cultures, life experiences involved? learning aptitudes, how do you get them to this collective purpose within an organization? It's the mission or vision of the organization, et cetera.

So you surround them with this culture of inclusion so they can each feel the sense of belonging, feel valued, et cetera, for what they bring to the table.

What's life been like for you over the last two years when it comes to your business relative to the fact that the conversation has changed so much?

So how do you get to become a founder of an organization like Destination STEM?

You know, throughout my life, even starting as a small child in Western Pennsylvania, my father was the first Black teacher, first Black principal in that area.

And so I saw every day from him-What the challenges were of being the only, and I learned from him as well because he wasn't the type of person to come home and just complain.

He was very disciplined in the fact that he talked about not just the challenges, but ways to overcome them.

So I learned about that all throughout my childhood years, my formative years.

So when I started working, I had the same mindset.

How do I create a more inclusive environment in every job that I had coming up through my life? And even college, when I went to grad school.

[laughs] There's some days when I think, "Well, I didn't think it was gonna be this hard." [laughs] But I think you need a certain spark to actually do it, so what was that? Why did you finally say, "Here, I'm gonna put my stake in the ground and do this," and do this with your daughter and son, which I love?

Yeah.

Where it explains it.

And so I use it in a, in a little bit of a way that goes a little bit deeper.

So you know, that first illustration, for those of you that are listening that haven't, haven't seen it, there's a illustration that Deloitte actually started.

And the first illustration is, you know, everyone's standing on one rock, and there's a fence in front.

The person on the right still can't see over the fence.

Person in the middle barely see over the fence.

Mm-hmm.