Catherine Pickstock

Welcome to Love and Philosophy.

This is a conversation between John Vervaeke and Darius Parvizy Wayne.

They will introduce one another.

And Darius, who knows both of us, offered to put us in touch, but I thought that, uh, Darius and John might have an even better conversation, and wow, it's a good one.

And they talked about Iris Murdoch, who one of my favorite philosophers.

So three amazing, uh, voices in this conversation.

I just wanted to say something about so many students listen to this, but also a lot of professors and teachers, whether you're an academic or whether you're a teacher in some other way.

In a way, many people are teachers without even knowing it.

You know, it's...

Well, you know, Catherine Pickstock in her book, Aspects of Truth, she goes to Quine and Putnam and there's Case Beer and like, you know, and all the...

Yeah, and it just keeps happening.

I think all the work on, you know, on relevance realization, I've argued, you've heard me, that relevance is a transjective phenomena.

And there's also this element of James K. Smith's talks about in line with what you're describing, I think, of secular liturgies and Again, we're not primarily or solely rationalistic, choosing creatures contrary to this kind of consumerist notion of a rational being that is maybe served by a certain side of secular modern culture.

But we are worshipping creatures and you do focus on doxology and you can see some of those wonderful influences and friends of yours like Ron Williams, John Milbank, Catherine Pickstock.

They do return to that in terms of the arts in that profound sense that you just laid out and the formal worship of the gathered Christian community in the church.

I wonder if you might speak to that and the rhythm of the, the liturgical life to counteract some of those darker forces of secular modernity.