Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, you know, I did coach a lawyer once who that some of his feedback was that he so when I coach people I interview 15 people who work with them and I ask about perceptions of their leadership.

I'm not doing an investigation.

And some of what came out was this guy was kind of making these old school comments.

And so it wasn't, nobody was saying he was sexually harassing them, but he would say that even to me, he'd say, you know, when I started working here, you know, back in the 60s, the women have their pointy bras on and we talked about sex and you pack them on the butt.

Softball question, if you will.

If you could re-engineer the workplace today with your training toolkit, what would be some of the things in the toolkit that you think best can re-engineer this difficult position we put ourselves in with the upstanders in the upstanding conversations?

Yeah.

I find that a lot of problems could be solved if people would just talk to each other.

And that's really the point of the upstander training.

I think about, you know, I coach leaders accused of bullying or creating a toxic team environment.

If the CEO would just be willing to talk to that person and hold them accountable, it would be fine.

Or if we all work together and one of you hurts my feelings or vice versa, if we could talk about it, It could be fine.

When you're seeing folks in empowering these employees and managers to manage these situations, what do you see as the biggest pitfall outside of communication when you're trying to work that from the inside?

Can you go deeper into that one?

Yeah.

So because they've been living in this world of fighting their whole lives, and just to give you some examples, all of my coaching clients have a story.

One woman came from China as a probably 18-year-old.

She didn't speak English.

She was the sixth child.

She was a daughter.

And so for somebody who is having regular run-ins with a colleague who is displaying these bullying types of behaviors, what advice do you have for them to make those difficult conversations a bit easier?