Yeah.

You know, the working backwards to that, yes, many companies actually do have some sort of framework.

This is what we expect.

This is how you should treat people.

It is not followed.

It's not policed.

And that's why we have such a prevalence of toxic leadership is because the the self-interested person rather than organizational outcome focused person, right, is the antithesis of the toxic leader is is allowed to thrive because they typically perform.

So I was wondering if you could talk to the importance of that and what the difference is.

So can you share what led you down that path? Why do you have the change of heart there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wasn't a bad kid, but I got into some trouble, mostly just messing with teachers and just, I was smart enough to get through the classes, but I didn't really pay attention.

Right.

So nothing like traditional trouble, trouble, but I've made trouble for the teachers.

And I finally had some music teachers that straightened me out and I'd always enjoyed music and played guitar and took lessons and stuff like that but that really locked me into where a creative mind right not just the here's some information for a test but here's a creative mind and forcing me to do something with it in fact My talent was there, but my work ethic wasn't.

And this question was not planned.

Brian?

Let me start with the last part, how it works.

There has to be willingness because depending on the role, depending on the type of organization, how it's discovered and how it's dealt with will vary.

But anyone involved has to be willing to take a step back and say, look, we can do better.

The humans that work for us and with us are not simply just assets on a balance sheet.

They're legitimately humans that have their own dreams and expectations and their own value and worth and therefore we they deserve more right which isn't usually a conversation that happens at a board of directors level or even a c-suite um sometimes that's only relegated to you know the human capital partners within the organization it's not even out it's even outside of operations so you know Board of Directors absolutely should pay attention to people metrics.

So exit survey information, ethics violation reporting, just noticing trends in I would say not for cause, so voluntary terminations when people leave the organization on their own accord.

before people come to know about it or the organization itself is gone by then.

Representatives from BlackRock, State Street Global Advisors, and Institutional Shareholder Services, an advisory firm, made the trek out to the small city of Marshall, and were greeted with a show.

We had the hearing in December, and so, uh, the Christmas lights are up.

There's an ice skating rink set up on the town square.

It's a beautiful Norman Rockwell feel.

What we were looking for was to cr- be in this environment of a, of a Hallmark movie, except for the firms we subpoenaed.

We wanted a John Grisham movie for them.

He gave them a six-hour grilling, challenging them on all the ways they were trying to take down the fossil fuel industry, like offering ESG funds that screen out some energy companies, joining net zero initiatives aimed at drawing down emissions, voting to support some environmental and social shareholder resolutions, like the board shakeup at ExxonMobil we talked about last episode.

When it comes to ESG investing, which interest is BlackRock trying to serve? The general welfare of your clients, the general welfare of humanity, or the sole financial interest of those clients?