Brian McLaren

The birds are doing what birds do.

It's that Brian McLaren thing.

The birds are being awesome.

Humans are a mess, but the birds are being awesome.

some of these themes in Christian history and find that many others, many people much more intelligent and more knowledgeable and have theologies, which I would now subscribe to.

Richard Rohr, Brian McLaren, many others.

And I just want to say that I just don't want this to cause any division or fracture in relationships.

Yeah, I've changed the church that I go to.

Having said that, now is the time to go back to the word that you used, map.

As I said, I had a tough year, particularly 2021, feeling very lonely.

And it was discovering writers like Brian McLaren that helped me get through that.

But if you don't mind, well, I know you don't mind because we've discussed it.

I'm really glad you're here.

I'm Brian McLaren, and this season, with my co-hosts, Dr. Randy and Edith Woodley, we're learning how to see the Bible from a provocative, fresh vantage point.

We're learning to see the Bible as earth people, not as empire people.

We hope you'll find it stimulating and helpful in your daily life.

So I mean, the Merchant Church is a good example.

I came to my previous church, University Reformed Church, and one of the staff members was reading Brian McLaren, and Rob Bell was an hour down the road.

I, if anyone still remembers Rob Bell, wherever he's doing out in California or something, but Rob Bell was from...

Lansing area where I was pastoring, and I was from the Grand Rapids area where he was pastoring.

They're very similar.

Except that I had engaged with Robert Shuler.

And then you look at the emerging church, you look at all this, Brian McLaren, you look at all this stuff, and I think McLaren's still writing books somewhere.

But what amazes me is how... all of this passes from the scene so quickly.

It really is.

And there's a certainty because I've heard, you know, what Brian McLaren and Richard, two teachers I spent a lot of time with, they talk about how faith, you know, certainty is not faith.

Certainty is the opposite of faith.

But the certainty that we're talking about is something really different.

So I've done a lot of question digging with pastors and scholars on this one.

My belief, especially after hearing from Brian McLaren and some of his books, one of my favorite books is Do I Stay Christian? And it was so clear.

It's 10 of the main reasons people leave.

10 of the main reasons people wouldn't, and then really just wrestling through this and thinking through this.

I've loved feeling part of a community of people who all think differently.

I've been expanded by you, introducing me to lots of thinkers, Brian McLaren, Brian Draper, Lacey and many others.

Over the 10 years, I've laughed, cried and shouted yes in agreement many times.

Rarely have I disagreed, but every time I've known that's okay with you, even though we've never talked about it.

I think the other thing that's been really, really good for me is that I've had friends, people around me, and I've had experiences of meeting people that have been really, really challenging.

So with Graham's work and some of the things that he's been able to do is I've had an experience when I was about 31 to 32, which is... 25 years ago, of meeting Brian McLaren, for example.

Now, Brian McLaren is an unbelievable teacher and thinker who now works at the Center for Action and Contemplation with Richard Rohr.

But I met him 25 years ago, and I was able to sit with him and pick his brain as a young person who was starting to think through some of the stuff around what we now call deconstruction.

I was able to do a lot of that stuff then, one-on-one with this man, and I was able to have him stay in my home and I was able to have a relationship with him.

It's Season 10, Episode 7, and whether you've been with us for all nine previous seasons or this is your first time to be part of Learning How to See, I'm really glad you're here.

I'm Brian McLaren, and this season, I'm joined by two brilliant and kind co-hosts, Dr. Randy and Edith Woodley.

We're learning how to see the Bible from a provocative and fresh vantage point.

We hope you'll find it stimulating and helpful in your daily seeing, living, relating, and being.