How do we, how do our guests, right, help others to grow and build and such? So, Cliff Notes, what's the book? Why'd you write it? I got a million more questions beyond that, Brent.

So the book combines two concepts.

One is a philosophy that I refer to as give first or have labeled give first.

And the other is a bunch of concepts around how to be effective in both mentors and mentee.

So this notion of mentorship and how to be effective in the context of it.

And I've interwoven those two concepts.

They've been things I've been developing through practice for a long time, both as an investor and my role at Techstars.

How should they think about, I still need to kind of make mine, if you will, versus give, give, give?

Um, you know, I'm curious, kind of going to the other end of the con- spectrum, if someone is a new founder, they've, they've not done this a whole lot, what would you say to them if they go, "Well, you know, Brad, you obviously have stuff that you can give, but I don't know that I really feel like I have much that I can give"? How does it that every person has something they can give?

Yeah.

I, I think this is a powerful question because it, it comes up, uh, over and over again.

O- one of the things in this book I've tried to do is link this philosophy with practical advice on how to be a, an effective mentor.

I hear often from people at the early parts of their careers or when they're a founder at the very beginning of their business, uh, "I don't, I, I don't have anything to add.

I don't know what to do to mentor to somebody." And I'll, I'll tell a story, uh, to illustrate the point.

Uh, my first company was acquired when I was 28 by a guy named Len Fastler and Jerry Pock, are two guys.

Right.

Like, you literally feel like this is going to die (laughs) and kind of together with your shame and your embarrassment, right? When that happens, how do you continue and how do you still fall in love with the process instead of giving up?

Yeah.

Well, fear, fear and shame are, are really good words.

And they're different emotions in the context of it, so I'm gonna play with that first which is, I think fear comes from lots of different places, including one's own internal understanding of oneself.

And, you know, a lot of people are driven by fear in terms of their behavior, a lot of people are driven by achievement, uh, s- a lot of people are driven by learning.

Like, there's different things that, that drive us and sort of fundamentally as a species, right? I mean, uh, probably everybody that's listening knows the fight or flight response and, you know, when you feel threatened, um, you know, either you attack back or you run away.

And it's very, very hard to evolve...

(laughs).