What are you seeing from the, the current, um, you know, version of South Africa?

Africa?Yeah, I, I think, um, I mean, it's, it's funny, you know, you... wh-when everybody says, what, what's, what's, what's different? I mean, we-we've, we've innovated a lot more.

We've done a lot more, um, sort of, I think, I think moving the group of people to, to, to, to, to be able to accept each other, um, and, and their own sort of shortcomings, and then grow from that, was a huge part of Erasmus' start as a coach, and now he's gone to the phase where everybody's trying to innovate, everybody's trying to work harder.

So, I mean, I don't think you've ever, as, as, as New Zealand as a nation, have ever doubted the fact that physically we-we're, we're up for it.

But I think we went through many years where physicality was all we had.

You know, now I think we've got a, we've got a better skill set, we've got a better understanding of the game, we've got better pr-preparation, we've got a better off-field environment.

Um, all those kind of things are, are bigger contributors, I think.

Is controlling the tempo genuinely part of the South African strategy?

What are you seeing from the, the current, um, you know, version of South Africa?

Yeah, I, I, I think, um ...

I mean, it's, it's funny, you know.

You, when, when everybody says, "What, what's, what's, what's different?" I mean, we- we've, we've innovated a lot more.

We've done a lot more, um, sort of ...

I think, I think moving the group of people to, to, to, to, to be able to accept each other, um, and, and their own sort of shortcomings and then grow from that was a huge part of Erasmus' start as a coach.

And now he's gone to the phase where everybody's trying to innovate, everybody's trying to work harder.

Is controlling the tempo genuinely part of the South African strategy?

Or a bottle of brandy

... wasn't something.

Yeah, exactly, or a bottle of brandy, something n- uh, uh, not any use to anybody unless, uh, you just wanna go out over the weekend.

But, um, and, and I think because of that, I started working at quite a young age.

So I didn't mind.

I went to an ad agency and I said, "Can I, can I learn from you guys?" And I spent some time with Hunt Lascaris 'cause a friend of mine's dad was Reg Lascaris and, you know, I, I, I worked early on at Saatchi & Saatchi and, and if you're in the environment and you see other people, you know, working hard to make a wage, you know, Monday to Friday, even though you do get, and, and this is a big point, even though you do get to then play a game for a living, which is what rugby is, which absolutely stunts your ability to, to get the value exchange, okay, as a player.

Now, you're going, "I would play this for free," and then someone gives you hundreds of thousands of rands.

Mm

No,

I mean, the Crusaders are the most dominant team in all of rugby.

And we were an obity team.

We were sort of, you know, young.

Anyway, Marshy and the team went into their change room and basically had a massive fine session.

And they said, listen, we're chopping everything now.

We start on Monday and we're going to make the final.

Yeah,