Bloggingheads.tv

uh critically in a magazine uh john had his own uh what did he call it uh losing the race is what he called it his own book and you would have thought we had a lot in common but he was critical of my uh and i was mad at him uh and uh so we had a kind of contentious intellectual relationship uh Fast forward five years from 2002 to 2007, I gave some lectures on mass incarceration at Harvard, at Stanford.

And one of the people who invited me out there was the philosopher Josh Cohen, who was very friendly with Robert Wright, the journalist and internet entrepreneur, who had a suite of podcasts that he called Blogging Heads.

And I was invited to first come on with Josh as an interviewee and then to mount my own show on a regular basis as a part of the blogging head suite.

And John was a frequent conversation partner in that context.