Have you noticed any changes in the boardrooms over your career in terms of, for example, the people sitting around the table? Have you noticed

any changes? I think one of the good changes is that there's now many more women involved on boards and They were when I first became a director.

And they are good contributors.

They have their own views about some of these things that might differ from a male board or an all male board.

So I think they make a valuable contribution.

That's probably the biggest change.

I mean, there's now more consciousness in the private sector about investing in companies that are not producing products that are universally acceptable.

If you were advising someone who was about to chair a board for the first time, and by advising I just mean sitting down, you know, then packing your brains to say, how can I do this job well? If we make the assumption that, as you've said at the start, the values are there, they're a good person, what enduring leadership habits would you encourage your director to develop?