Benn Steil

So we've tried to contain the spending, and then with 3% growth, uh, we grow our way out of this.

Bessent has said a version of that before, but is it true? I mean, how much growth would it take when you are talking 40 trillion? Ben Steil is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, where he took up exactly that question in a recent article.

Ben, welcome to the program.

Thank you for having me, Kai.

Growth is indeed a very important component in a package of measures we need in order to lower our debt burden, but we're also going to need, um, spending cuts, and we're going to need revenue increases.

So we should start having a rational debate about what the composition of those, uh, spending cuts and revenue, uh, raising measures should be.

Ben Steil is at the Council on Foreign Relations, where he's a senior fellow, also director of International Economics.

Ben, thanks for your time.