Yeah

... or internal audit.

When it comes to technology, because generally speaking, governors don't feel comfortable, all things being green is like, "Great, we're off the hook." Because frankly, a lot of my colleagues, n- not necessarily on the boards I'm on, but, but governance colleagues generally, feel really uncomfortable about this 'cause it's not their happy space.

So, um, you know, challenge, challenge all the greens.

I, I'm involved with one project at the moment and we, we just sort of got notification that, you know, a couple of areas a- are on red, and I'm, I'm actually happy because it means we're getting an honest and accurate and open and transparent r- read from management.

So, so that's the sort of high level thing.

The difficulty is how does a board, um, make itself sufficiently skilled to be able to test those things? And I would not for a moment say that we should throw out all of the m- middle-aged m- white men from boards and instill a bunch of, you know, 20-year-olds with three iPhones and a LinkedIn account.

What do you think you've learnt from that different lens that management teams and boards ought to understand?

But let's start by talking about David Laird and who he is and what you've learned from him.

Yeah.

So I, um, I'd come across him on Instagram as you do.

Uh, I, I make a bit of furniture at home just for fun, uh, and he is, he's a real craftsman.

He makes incredible pieces of, of furniture.

But his thing is, is around taking a tree which otherwise would've been a waste product, whether it's one that needs to be removed for a subdivision or whether it's diseased or di- or, or dead, uh, and he cuts it down and he mills it and dries it and then turns it into something beautiful.

And, and the really interesting thing is, um, he's in my neck of the woods up in rural North Canterbury, and so he's had examples of trees that had grown for 100, 150 years very close to where he lives that he then turned into these incredible pieces of furniture that would spend the next 150 years, uh, adorning a house, uh, only steps away from, from where the original tree grew.

Why have they been framed that way? Have you had conversations with council about it?

Tell me about that race, because I haven't heard of it before.

Sure.

So, I mean, the old ghost.

I'll tattle back a little bit.

And so in 2006, 2007, somebody found a map.

And the map was from 1840, back when the gold rush happened on the west coast of the South Island of New Zealand.

And it was this old map of a proposed road between Seddonville and Lyle on the west coast.

frustrated about something or like same thing I have a problem in my business just like doing a workout whether it's going for a run outside or cycling just just getting outside and it just helps clear your mind so I completely appreciate that so I want to switch gears how did you go from you know outdoor clothing brand to then investing in early stage tech startups like when was it a gradual switch or did something happen did you get an opportunity kind of explain to me how that transition kind of happened