What does that mean in practice, and why?

Yeah, it is kind of an interesting concept to think about and to wrap your head around.

It does take time.

And, and the simplest thing that I use as a coach when someone comes to me, I say, "You, you use the talk test." Can you talk, and how much can you talk while you're doing the effort? And Dr.

Duffy touched on it earlier when he saw a 24-year-old running up the hill doing certain things.

Now, everyone is going to be in a different space when they're there, and maybe you're a better summer runner or a better wi- winter runner, so it goes down to each individual wise.

But when we look at effort based, I use the talk test, and when we look at a marathon training plan, when 80 to 85% of your running should be at what we consider a conversational pace, you should be able to not quite, you know, do exactly what we're doing here, but you should be able to have a conversation to a certain extent for the bulk of your training.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I mean, Lauren is, is, it's her career.

She is training and racing to win, right? For us amateurs, we want to succeed as we define it and have a good time and not put ourselves in the hospital, right? But there's also the constraints of reality, [laughs] whether that's our own physical capabilities or our family commitments or job commitments and all this, right? So I think some of this comes down to just get as much volume in as you can ahead of time, take a little bit of a rest, and then show up with a positive attitude.

And that sounds stupid and overly simplistic, but in, in a lot of ways, that's kind of what it is, right? Whether it's, like this past weekend at Unbound, for instance, the, from the pros to the Janes and the Joes, they could have trained with all manner of specificity for what they thought the day would hold, and then come hour six, you're standing in a-

[laughing]

And, and she's also won Badlands.

She had won Choca 560.