Batin

So hadith are addressing things like that, but how, how to address the... how to relate to the jinn, uh, as a Muslim and in reference to what the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad and his companions had to say about these matters.

Okay, so [laughs] what most, what most people will encounter are the, this kind of the, the hagiographic tradition, Qisas al-Anbiya, um, as well as the, the tafsir, the, some of the, the more, you know, Batini or esoteric interpretations, especially by some of the more heretical Sufis about, um, not only the jinn, but about the figure of Iblis.

I don't know if it's maybe just bec- well, especially for non-Muslim people, they're not gonna be looking at the Muslim sources because they don't need to know how to relate to things as a Muslim because they're not Muslim.

Right.