What kind of an impact do you think this potential import ban could have?

All right.

Well, look.

Uh, let, let, let, let's not underestimate the, the size, but let's also talk about how it's gonna affect people in British Columbia.

So first of all, this is not a wall.

It's a filter.

So the US banned the bottles crossing, but they actually opened the tanks.

I guess this is a new horizon, that this is a new area, Barry, that we're going to have to explore, that you can sure focus on the quality side here at home, but on the s- at the same time, take advantage of the lower Canadian dollar and expand into the bulk product by moving it across the border.

So you're from the Valleys, yeah?

From the Valleys, yes.

Well...

We had national service.

Right.

I started serving an apprenticeship, and I didn't like it, and I walked out.

So I was now 17, and national service was coming up.

But, you know, they could really appreciate the writing.

Let's start with, as I said, you know what happened two days ago, Canada walking away for this deal and what you think of that.

Well, look, Quebec is the hardest hit province in this country from the existing tariffs, right? The Trump tariffs that came in was about $7.7 billion, B with a bill, okay, of Quebecers that are caught by these tariffs.

But the point that most people don't really know is really what broke these talks down.

And we now know it from a report that came out this morning in the New York Times.

It was really about the use of French language and limitations on Canadian sovereignty to regulate AI and things like that.

And so in the final hours on Friday, the Americans asked Canada to drop Bill 109, which is a piece of legislation from Quebec about streaming platforms to be able to make the French language shows discoverable or to make it easier to find music that's in French rather than English.

Not just available, it had to be findable, right? And that was something we gave away in the last trade negotiation.

Then the suggestion now is, if you just outlined, the U.S. kind of threw this in, if you will, at the last minute, and that was a deal breaker.

The prime minister mentioned that when he was explaining to the country, "Hey, this is why we walked away from the table." What do you think he m- was saying there?

Well, look, here's our problem, Paul.

It, it's a simple problem Canada kind of messed up in the CUSMA, right? That was under Trump, called the best trade agreement ever.

In that trade agreement, Canada agreed to some terms that were kind of problematic.

We didn't really think about them that carefully, and then they came back to bite us later.

One of them was what we call the poison pill.

Uh, it's Article 3210, for those of you who are, are trade nerds that were following at home.

What do you think of that move?

make of this?

Well, look...

This was a pressure exercise, right? The Americans pulled these tariffs on Canada for the purpose of extracting something.

They wanted to get some form of deal at the table.

So that is exactly what they got.

This is not by accident.

This is by design.

And it looks to me that it's got things that the prime minister can't promise because it's kind of up to the provinces for things like provincial alcohol bans, which is one of the big irritants there.

If the worst happens at 1201, what exactly happens at 1201?

Okay, so there are 554 lines of the tariff code that are going to be affected.

I read them all because they don't actually make sense.

So I'll give you a good example.

We put in a tariff on hockey sticks, but they stuck it into the alcohol tariff.

because they just had to throw it in somewhere.

They picked businesses to create leverage on Canada.

But is it wishful thinking to think that that might make him back off a little?

Yeah.

So the answer on all of this is that the Americans are convinced that Canadians are quitters, that the Canadians will buckle down.

And if we don't buckle down on this one, they're gonna put more pressure, not less.

So at the end of the day, the question's gotta be: What does a deal look like that actually works for Canada? In my sense, that's gotta be about structure, because what's killing Canada right now is a lack of certainty.

We're never gonna get free market access.

Those days are gone.

So it's not gonna we're gonna be able to sell across the border for free.

Do you think Donald Trump understands it but is playing populist politics, or is he just kind of an idiot?

So when it comes to the categories the Americans are digging their heels in over, are there any that you think we should yield on? You know, like milk, dairy, um, softwood lumber, au- automobiles, uh, whatever else.

Well, right now this is pay to play.

So, so what we're doing is we're keep paying to stay at the table, and then we don't actually get the deal done at the table, and they make us pay again, and that's the problem here.

The problem is you need to pay to actually have an announced deal.

The Mexicans have had three rounds.

Then they have a fourth round coming up September.

We haven't had one.

So if you were offering advice, then what would you say should be the, uh, the, the penalty we pay to get to the table?

Is he actually sort of waving with his left hand to attract our attention to something, getting us to bite down and fight on something that really doesn't matter, while on the other side, they're raking in the dough on intellectual property.

They are raking in the dough, for sure.

Look, first of all, Donald Trump understands the value of brands more than anybody in the world.

He really does.

For sure, reality TV, that's all about brand.

Trump hotels, all about brand.

He wasn't building them, he was branding them.

Like, are we focused on the wrong syllable here? We are focused

Okay, so if that's the case, then we have to figure out what it is they want from us, and what, give them some of that, Barry? Like, what are we supposed to do here?

Well, we need to figure out what it is they want and what it is we want.

We have more leverage now than we've had in 30 years, but the prime minister says he doesn't wanna use it.

I understand he doesn't wanna threaten the Americans, but they respond well to tough stance, not to weakness.

And the premier of British Columbia, Eby, he's, he understands.

He's being tough.

Premier Ford, he's being tough.

Okay, so when you say we should use our leverage, what kind of leverage? Like Alberta and Saskatchewan don't want us to use our leverage because it's in their provinces.

What do you think?

Well, you know, Amanda, let me go back to Tiffany's point because it's a really good point.

First of all, the game has changed and the relationship has changed.

And so what I think Tiffany has been saying is that we've got to look at what we've got now rather than what we kind of in our sentimental view have.

Because we spend a lot of our time talking about this special relationship where we work together as partners.

And whatever... is really going on.

And I grew up with that and always believed that.

What's your sense, again, to underline, and we've heard this, that's the second time people said, why do we even want to sign a trade deal with them? Can you underscore that, the significance of why we need this deal?

Well, I thought that, uh, Mark Carney was busy making deals with everybody, and he promised us if we voted for him, he knew how to make a deal with the United States and with Trump.

Uh, well, that may be.

Uh, I don't know.

That's sort of above my pay grade.

I can tell you that this 301 s- process, this is the way, one of the ways that pa- that tariffs are put in.

This is the preferred way to go now because the US is using Section 301.

This is the China forced labor tariff in particular, but there are more of them.

Well, what do you think is going to happen? Do you think that this is all gonna get ironed out and we'll be back to normal business with the United States?

So how is this playing out with the US's trade partners? As someone who's previously advised Canadian officials on trade issues, Barry says the Canadians still seem kinda dumbstruck that they're even in this situation.

Well, Canada is spending its time feeling like the aggrieved spouse going to marital therapy, and it's a bad strategy because unless both sides wanna get help, that doesn't work.

So their strategy is, "We all love each other.

We've been your best partners.

We're gonna grow the pie," and nobody's listening to that, that counts right now.

By the way, I agree with what they're saying.

It's just it's the wrong strategy for this game.

For the game Barry thinks Trump is playing, anyway.

But in the original version, apparently he was covered in blood, and that was one of the objections.

Well, you should never...

Writing these things, especially half an hour ones, lots of things should be unresolved, especially in Getting It Right, where we got the young black girl it was following the choir about, Bobbie.

I like to have so many things unresolved.

I would love to end up on the episode of a face, of somebody's face, right? Galloway, when he was chasing that van with all the dirty books.

And it didn't happen.

And I would have taken, if I'd been writing more, unless somebody else has used it, that the girl, Bobbie, I was really wanting to actually clarifying her He thinks she's in prostitution and he's trying to get her away from me.

And little WPC Brin.

The idea of you give a little, I give a little, and we strike a deal, that game is over, and we need to give up thinking things will go back to normal.

There is no normal anymore.

What you can see from the statements of the Americans, from the structure of how they're putting this together, is that this is not the normal type of thing, and what they want is a totally different structure, and it's not really entirely about economic benefit, because a lot of the things they're doing, it doesn't mean that it's better for them economically.

Some of them are worse, but they're still doing it because it's about power and changing the nature of the game.

But he says we can get creative, find ways to let them know we won't be pushed around.

Let's say you put on the books that for a certain period of time when everyone's going to need potash, you're going to put an export tax, a 30% on.

Or you are prepared to restrict the flow on some of the oil going into the Midwest.

Or you are prepared to look at the issue of uranium.