So to sort of set a baseline level of understanding, can you sort of describe the Defense Department before Goldwater-Nichols and what some of the issues that you saw, you know, in the seat that you sat in?

You almost, that's a really excellent, thank you for giving me the opportunity, such a terrific starting point.

You really need to go back to World War II.

Many people probably don't remember in World War II, we had a War Department, which was the Army and the Army Air Corps, there was no Air Force, and the Department of the Navy, which was the Navy and the Marine Corps.

And they were two absolutely separate cabinet level departments.

And of course, we had, you know, the chiefs of those services back in those days.

And but they weren't unified and they weren't really called the Joint Chiefs.

What do you think, amongst the many things that this legislation did, I guess what continues to serve its purpose best and what maybe needs some changes now after another 40 years have passed?

November 4th may be a completely different matter, General.

Well, John, let me start by saying what we just heard from Jennifer Griffin, who's the gold standard for national security reporters, what she said is gospel.

And because China is playing in the Middle East in the very scenario you just talked about, under the leadership of the commander-in-chief, the US military, including the USS Abraham Lincoln, um, that just returned home and was awarded the highest award a unit can get in combat, the Presidential Unit Citation, they were part of the US military significantly degrading Iran's conventional capability and nuclear ambitions.

But let's not confuse degraded with defeated-

Mm-hmm.

You know, we never take anything off the table.

I would say our military is always gonna have, and I know they're now making sure that the president has all the options he may or may not need for any circumstance.

So I don't think the fact that we have forces flowing in and out, which happens all the time.

Yep.

However, Iran does not believe in deterrence.

You know, no matter what anybody says, I don't see the leaders of Russia, the leaders of China, Putin or Xi Jinping, as bad as they are, ever starting a nuclear war because their countries would be totally obliterated.

Iran doesn't think like that.

The leaders of Iran would use a nuclear weapon.

They've said they would use a nuclear weapon.

So we needed to do everything we could to ensure they could not have a nuclear weapon, either a crude nuclear device or a nuclear weapon they could put on an ICBM that could reach the United States of America.

Vote, uh-

They're trying to kind of use this amped-up rhetoric, because obviously the Houthis and the Saudis are at odds, clearly, big time.

Look, here's the big picture.

The United States, thanks to our commander-in-chief, has seriously degraded Iran's conventional military capabilities and nuclear aspirations.

But nobody should confuse degraded with defeated.

And a seriously wounded adversary can still be a dangerous adversary.

So what we're seeing now is Iran widening the battlefield because it can't defeat the United States.

And this is the case from where they continue to attack shipping in the Strait of Hormuz and block the free-flow of commerce there to their terrorist proxies, the Houthis, who are attacking Saudi Arabia, the two airfields you just talked about, and potentially all the way to the base in England, where clearly we said from day one the Iranians were behind that.

IRGC, IRGC, IRGC, because they're the people that went and machine gunned all the protesters down.

They're trying to kind of use this amped up rhetoric, 'cause obviously the Houthis and the Saudis are, uh, at odds, clearly big time.

Look, here's the big picture.

The United States, thanks to our commander in chief, has seriously degraded Iran's conventional military capabilities and nuclear aspirations, uh, but nobody should confuse degraded with defeated, and a wound, a severe, a seriously wounded adversary can still be a dangerous adversary.

So what we're seeing now is Iran widening the battlefield 'cause they can't defeat the United States, and this is a case from the, where they continue to attack shipping in the Strait of Hormuz and block the free flow of commerce there to their terrorist proxies, the Houthis, who are attacking Saudi Arabia, the two airfields you just talked about, and potentially all the way to the base in England, where clearly we said from day one the Iranians were behind that.

Um, and so, you know, we've gotta basically protect our forces, support our allies, keep the sea lanes open, and make it unmistakably clear to Iran, particularly to the Republican Guard, that any attacks on Americans and the allies has serious consequences.

And also, this is not something they ultimately are gonna be able to prevail on by widening the battlefield.

IRGC, IRGC, IRGC, because they're the people that went and machine gunned all the protesters down.

Yeah, I mean, listen, you and I are on the same sheet as we have been for some time, what we call in the military the center of gravity.

They're trying to kind of use this amped-up rhetoric because obviously the Houthis and the Saudis are at odds, clearly, big time.

Look, here's the big picture.

The United States, thanks to our commander-in-chief, has seriously degraded Iran's conventional military capabilities and nuclear aspirations, but nobody should confuse degraded with defeated, and a seriously wounded adversary can still be a dangerous adversary.

So what we're seeing now is Iran widening the battlefield because it can't defeat the United States And this is the case from where they continue to attack shipping in the Strait of Hormuz and block the free flow of commerce there to their terrorist proxies, the Houthis, who are attacking Saudi Arabia, the two airfields you just talked about, and potentially all the way to the base in England, where clearly we said from day one the Iranians were behind that.

And so, you know, we've got to basically protect our forces, support our allies, keep the sea lanes open.

And make it unmistakably clear to Iran, particularly to the Republican Guard, that any attacks on Americans and the allies has serious consequences.

And also, this is not something they ultimately are going to be able to prevail on by widening the battlefield.

IRGC, IRGC, IRGC, because they're the people that went and machine gunned all the protesters down.

What was the problem that you and your colleagues saw that became Goldwater-Nichols back then? Welcome, General.

France, it's a privilege to be with you and your listeners.

And 40 years ago this fall, the Congress, under the leadership of Senator Barry Goldwater and Senator Sam Nunn, passed into law some of the most fundamental reforms of the Pentagon since the Pentagon was founded 40 years prior at the end of World War II.

And what was the reason was there were a number of significant failures of the Pentagon in that time frame from World War II to 1986 when these laws were passed.

reforming the Pentagon, such as the failures in Vietnam, such as the Desert One attempted rescue in Iran, the Mayagrez, Grenada, all of those successful, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said there were a lot of problems there.

The bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beirut, where there were eight layers of command between General Bernie Rogers and the Marine commander on the ground that created, you know, huge problems.

And I mean, going on and on.

What can we learn, sir, about operations in Venezuela or from operations in Venezuela, operations in Iran, operations in the Caribbean, and operations, not our operations, in Ukraine regarding operations? mission delivery for all of these areas that you're writing about.

What do you think? How do you read those words from President Trump and where we're at right now?

Well, Rita, great to be with you.

And I was in the Pentagon this afternoon, so I wasn't privy to his remarks, but I would say he's spot on in terms of the timing because Since the last time I had the privilege to talk to you both, things are much more negative, both over there and as well at home.

In terms of Iran, unfortunately, they continue to have capability and capacity.

They continue to attack our allies and partners.

They continue to try to exert a stranglehold over free flow of commerce through the Straits of Hormuz.

They've gotten their proxies, the Houthis, to basically take on Saudi Arabia and try to shut down another transit point, the...

You have this clear and present danger to Western civilization emanating from the Iranian regime and it hasn't been stopped.

What do you think, how do you read those words from President Trump and where we're at right now?

Well, Rita, great to be with you.

And I was in the Pentagon this afternoon, so I wasn't privy to his remarks, but I would say he's spot on in terms of the timing because Since the last time I had the privilege to talk to you both, things are much more negative, both over there and as well at home.

In terms of Iran, unfortunately, they continue to have capability and capacity.

They continue to attack our allies and partners.

They continue to try to exert a stranglehold over free flow of commerce through the Straits of Hormuz.

They've gotten their proxies, the Houthis, to basically take on Saudi Arabia and try to shut down another transit point, the...

You have this clear and present danger to Western civilization emanating from the Iranian regime and it hasn't been stopped.

What do you think? How do you read those words from President Trump and where we're at right now?

Well, Rita, great to be with you.

And I was in the Pentagon this afternoon, so I wasn't privy to his remarks.

But I would say he's spot on in terms of the timing because Since the last time I had the privilege to talk to you both, things are much more negative, both over there and as well at home.

In terms of Iran, unfortunately, they continue to have capability and capacity.

They continue to attack our allies and partners.

They continue to try to exert a stranglehold over free flow of commerce through the Straits of Hormuz.

You have this clear and present danger to Western civilization emanating from the Iranian regime and it hasn't been stopped.

General, what do you make of this? You know, we'll talk about Iran, too, but obviously maybe he's worried about the war coming to his front door.

First thing I would say, although you use the term and it's correct term assassination, I would say because he started a war against a sovereign nation, Ukraine.

He is a legitimate enemy combatant.

Yeah, I agree.

It is not assassination.

He is a legitimate military target.

Ukraine has shown that they're increasing capability with drones into Mother Russia.

Yeah,

General, what do you make of this? You know, we'll talk about Iran, too, but obviously maybe he's worried about the war coming to his front door.

First thing I would say, although you use the term and it's correct term assassination, I would say because he started a war against a sovereign nation, Ukraine.

He is a legitimate enemy combatant.

Yeah, I agree.

It is not assassination.

He is a legitimate military target.

Ukraine has shown that they're increasing capability with drones into Mother Russia.

Yeah, I think about Nazi, you know, what was the famous movie where Hitler was always worried about somebody inside? Stauffenberg.

General, what do you make of this? You know, we'll talk about Iran, too, but obviously maybe he's worried about the war coming to his front door.

First thing I would say, although you use the term and it's correct term assassination, I would say because he started a war against a sovereign nation, Ukraine.

He is a legitimate enemy combatant.

Yeah, I agree.

It is not assassination.

He is a legitimate military target.

Ukraine has shown that they're increasing capability with drones into Mother Russia.

Yeah,

General, what do you make of this? You know, we'll talk about Iran, too, but obviously maybe he's worried about the war coming to his front door.

First thing I would say, although you use the term and it's correct term assassination, I would say because he started a war against a sovereign nation, Ukraine.

He is a legitimate enemy combatant.

Yeah, I agree.

It is not assassination.

He is a legitimate military target.

Ukraine has shown that they're increasing capability with drones into Mother Russia.

Yeah,

Can you take us there?

Denny, you started in exactly the right place.

First of all, in identifying that the world is more dangerous and unstable than the peak of the Cold War.

And I don't need to go through all the details.

You know it personally.

Anybody that just is alive can see what's happening in the world and how unpredictable it is.

The number one responsibility of the Congress is to provide for the common defense.

Am I reading this right?

What is your take?

Well, first of all, I've been in Washington traffic myself, so that doesn't sound as bad as your New York traffic.

So I didn't hear anything earlier.

Obviously, KT McFarland is one of the best we've ever had, so I'd always be interested in what she would have to say.

My view is our military is ready 24-7 to execute whatever the commander-in-chief has directed.

At this particular point in time, my own personal view remains I'm a huge skeptic on the diplomatic track, as you know.

I thought it was a dead-end street.

I mean, that would cripple them.

What is your take?

Well, first of all, I've been in Washington traffic myself, so that doesn't sound as bad as your New York traffic.

So I didn't hear anything earlier.

Obviously, KT McFarland is one of the best we've ever had, so I'd always be interested in what she would have to say.

My view is our military is ready 24-7 to execute whatever the commander-in-chief has directed.

at this particular point in time.

My own personal view remains I'm a huge skeptic on the diplomatic track, as you know.

I mean, that would cripple them.

What is your take?

Well, first of all, I've been in Washington traffic myself, so that doesn't sound as bad as your New York traffic.

So I didn't hear anything earlier.

Obviously, KT McFarland is one of the best we've ever had, so I'd always be interested in what she would have to say.

My view is our military is ready 24-7 to execute whatever the commander-in-chief has directed.

at this particular point in time.

My own personal view remains I'm a huge skeptic on the diplomatic track, as you know.

I mean, that would cripple them.

Where do you think this is going?

Well, let me say right now my major focus today as it relates to attacks is our United States soccer strikers attacking Bosnia's defenders and goalies so we can go through to round 16.

I hope we're all going to be watching our team tonight.

But when it comes to Iran, I think we need to, with all the back and forth, keep the main thing the main thing.

The president is firm in his goals.

Iran will not have a nuclear weapon, not have access to enriched uranium, not be able to rebuild their capacity.

In that regard, you know, the old saying is trust but verify.

That ain't going to happen, right? There is no way that the world would ever allow for them to have some sort of control like that.

joining us now john we have arnold punaro uh former general of the marine corps also head of punaro group and uh general uh we love having you here on the show where do you think this is going

Well, let me say right now my major focus today as it relates to attacks is our United States soccer strikers attacking Bosnia's defenders and goalies so we can go through to round 16.

I hope we're all going to be watching our team tonight.

But when it comes to Iran, I think we need to, with all the back and forth, keep the main thing the main thing.

The president is firm in his goals.

Iran will not have a nuclear weapon, not have access to enriched uranium, not be able to rebuild their capacity.

In that regard, you know, the old saying is trust but verify.

That ain't going to happen, right? There is no way that the world would ever allow for them to have some sort of control like that.

Where do you think this is going?

Well, let me say right now my major focus today as it relates to attacks is our United States soccer strikers attacking Bosnia's defenders and goalies so we can go through to round 16.

I hope we're all going to be watching our team tonight.

But when it comes to Iran, I think we need to, with all the back and forth, keep the main thing the main thing.

The president is firm in his goals.

Iran will not have a nuclear weapon, not have access to enriched uranium, not be able to rebuild their capacity.

In that regard, you know, the old saying is trust but verify.

That ain't going to happen, right? There is no way that the world would ever allow for them to have some sort of control like that.

So it's like, where is this going?

Well, Rita, John, a privilege to be with you.

Look, we need to be prepared throughout this entire process to see repeated acts of aggression from the Iranian side.

And, you know, Iranians tested us.

They found out we'll hit back, as you mentioned, the critical missile and drone storage locations.

radar sites.

Obviously, this is CENTCOM strikes responding to the Iranian attacks on commercial shipping in the Straits.

What are your thoughts about that?

So it's like, where is this going?

Well, Rita, John, a privilege to be with you.

Look, we need to be prepared throughout this entire process to see repeated acts of aggression from the Iranian side.

And, you know, Iranian tested us.

They found out we'll hit back, as you mentioned, the critical missile and drone storage locations.

radar sites obviously this is sitcom strikes responding to the Iranian tax on commercial shipping in the Straits and the administration has made it clear our military will continue working to protect both commercial shippings obviously our troops and so as you know Iran is really fractured you've got the Republican guards and the Mullers that aren't necessarily on board with any deal and so they're going to continue to test the limits during the negotiations to see what they can get away with, and they're not going to get away with it.

I expect the administration to continue keeping a hard line throughout the negotiating process.

What are your thoughts about that?

So it's like, where is this going?

Well, Rita, John, a privilege to be with you.

Look, we need to be prepared throughout this entire process to see repeated acts of aggression from the Iranian side.

And, you know, Iranians tested us.

They found out we'll hit back, as you mentioned, the critical missile and drone storage locations.

radar sites.

Obviously, this is CIDCOM strikes responding to the Iranian attacks on commercial shipping in the Straits.

What are your thoughts about that?

Uh, how do you read these hits tonight and where President Trump is headed?

Well, Rita, I would say based on the reporting, uh, that you just had, uh, when you're talking about 48 Tomahawk cruise missiles, these are extremely precision, uh, weaponry, very lethal.

Uh, they fly at subsonic speed.

Uh, they probably were fired from a surface ship, could've been fired from a submarine.

Um, they fly to their target in a very precise way.

They have what's called terrain-matching guidance, TERCOM guidance, and they can fly down a street, they can make a right turn, they make a left turn, they can fly in a front door.

So they obviously had some very precise, very high-value targets that you would use a Tomahawk against.

Thank you.