It was lots of therapeutic intervention.

Yeah, we still have the beautiful site.

We just use it differently now.

But to be honest, when people do what I did and do, it's usually for personal reasons.

And for me, I didn't start the concept.

It started in America in 1983.

I pioneered it over here in the UK 21 years ago now.

So tell me a bit about your succession process.

So you can

imagine why it was very stressful.

And I remember standing in my kitchen and I'm buttering bread and I just feel this like huge weight of despair come over me.

Like I feel like I'm in the ocean and I'm about to drown.

And then I feel the Lord say to me like this urgency almost, right now, choose joy.

I'm like, how can I choose joy? Nothing about what I'm facing right now is allowing me to feel any sense of joy.

I just feel despair.

um tell me a bit about the course and why especially for people who work in and living and maybe grown up in low-income communities why it might be particularly helpful